Military suicide rate

Discussion in 'Warfare / Military' started by Mushroom, Jan 14, 2018.

  1. JakeJ

    JakeJ Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    To the contrary, military service is the best transition from youth to adulthood most people can make. Millions of men have been in the horrors of war and came out of it more mature and stronger than before. As for your cousin, there may have been an underlying flaw or weakness for which suicide may otherwise have come - or maybe not.

    The military turns boys (and girls) into men and women. For the vast majority, it is a life changing positive. But not for all.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2018
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  2. ArmySoldier

    ArmySoldier Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If you avoid getting shot or blown up, it's also an EXCELLENT leadership builder
     
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  3. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    Thats the problem. The military can only do so much to simulate a combat environment. They can't actually shoot at you in training and even back when they did shoot "over you" and make you crawl on the ground you still knew it was training and they weren't trying to kill you. The difference arises obviously when it becomes real and the person shooting at you is actively trying to kill you. There is no way to train for that part. Even the most realistic training scenarios cannot prepare you for that because at the end of the day you still know in the back of your mind that it's not real.

    I agree with you about folks act differently in stressful situations. One of my Privates was a goofball and he smiled at everything, even in the face of death. One time we got blown up in Afghanistan and I turn around to check on him and he's smiling and literally laughing out loud. I asked him if he was ok, his response was "Dude did we get just blown up? That was ****ing awesome! hahahaha" as he's bleeding....

    A short recording of that situation would have you thinking the kid just took a shot at a bar with his buddies by the way he was reacting. When in reality we had just gotten hit with a 100lb chemical IED. The other Private of mine remained basically stoic (as was his personality) and the other one froze up petrified in fear.

    Humans react to things differently. Nobody knows how they will react in a real combat zone when real bullets are flying your direction. I'll tell you what before my first deployment my only experience with gunshot wounds came from movies. I figured they might hurt but were no big deal from seeing stars like Sylvester Stallone grab their arm after getting shot and keep on going. It wasn't until that deployment when I saw with my own eyes exactly what happens to a human being after getting hit with a 7.62 round that I realized the movies weren't an accurate portrayal.

    I believe that movies and video games have painted a completely inaccurate portrayal of warfare to the uninformed. There is no romance in war, no reset button, no grabbing your arm and saying ouch after getting shot, etc. It is a terrible thing, and weapons do gruesome things to the human body that media rarely ever portrays accurately. It takes a certain type of person to remain calm and focused in such circumstances, and for a huge chunk of people it won't be "you", in spite of what so many will claim while having never actually been to war. Not saying "you" as in you but you as in a general sense as you said about the majority of soldiers in Vietnam.

    Lets face it, war goes against everything a human being was designed to do via evolution. You aren't supposed to run towards danger, you are designed by nature to run away from danger. You basically have to be reprogrammed to run towards danger and possible death and remain calm and focused. That is difficult to do and difficult to train somebody to do. You are basically overriding basic human nature at that point. And a decent chunk of the human population cannot be successfully reprogrammed to do that.
     
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  4. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    Is all ranks.

    My former Brigade Commander, a 2 Star General killed himself days before he was to put on his 3rd star.

    Ahhh, so only certain type of people kill themselves, but the trash that joins

    Not hardly. I joined the Army at 42. And everybody has those stress issues with spouses.

    And the number that sees combat or has PTSD is remarkably low. Hell, we have people collecting from the VA for PTSD that never even graduated from their MOS school.

    But after reading one of your comments, I think I am done with this. Uninformed comments from racists generally show me I have nothing of interest from reading anything else from them.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2018
  5. yiostheoy

    yiostheoy Well-Known Member

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    Jeeze you joined at 42 !!!

    Old man !!! That's lieutenant colonel age.
     
  6. yiostheoy

    yiostheoy Well-Known Member

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    Stay off roads.

    That rule has been around since the land mine was invented.
     
  7. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    Yep, and am still serving today at 53. Is interesting when the majority in my unit are young enough to be my kids.
     
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  8. yiostheoy

    yiostheoy Well-Known Member

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    Well they will need to look up to you for mature guidance.

    Think of something.
     
  9. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Pappy Mushroom.
     
  10. ArmySoldier

    ArmySoldier Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Couldn't be more wrong where I was. The roads aren't the problem where we were. It's the fields, and near small structures like a shed or a car parked. This ain't the 60's :)
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2018
  11. yiostheoy

    yiostheoy Well-Known Member

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    Stay away from everything then.
     
  12. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    Sort of difficult to do when you are ya know....there lol

    Thats the difficult part of fighting an enemy who intermixes with the civilian population and is almost indistinguishable from the civilian population. Can't really tell who is the bad guy. Stop driving on the roads and drive through a field and the farmer has put an IED there for you. Or the terrorists see that you no longer drive on the roads so they just put their bombs off the road now. Walk around a village and you aren't sure if that little kid running up to you just wants candy or if he has a grenade in his jacket. Not sure if the guy pushing the ice cream cart is actually just a guy trying to earn some money by selling ice cream to American troops or if he has packed that thing full of explosives.

    The list is long....I've seen everything from little kids to women to our own damn interpreters kill us.

    Insurgency is a royal pain in the ass.
     
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  13. ArmySoldier

    ArmySoldier Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Then it's not any fun!
     
  14. yiostheoy

    yiostheoy Well-Known Member

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    Insurgencies starting with Viet Nam (old spelling -- two words -- means South Viet) have always been with imbedded hidden enemy irregulars.

    Same now in A-stan. Same back in Iraq.

    Nothing new.

    The antidote is hyper-vigilance and hyper-paranoia.
     
  15. ArmySoldier

    ArmySoldier Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You're going full circle. First it was stay off the roads, now you can't go to Nam without stepping in IEDs in the jungle? You tryina prove my point?
     
  16. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The Aussies did. They stayed off the trails and used bolo knifes and machetes and created their own trails.

    Notice, no helmets, flack jackets and heavy rucksacks.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  17. yiostheoy

    yiostheoy Well-Known Member

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    Well when I was in, back in the 1970's, we were taught by the Nam Vet's not to go near roads or trails -- just stay in the bush. Your odds of stepping into a punji trap were then less if you stayed in the weeds and off trails or roads.

    A friend of mine who stayed-in fought in Iraq #1 in the great tank battle where they greased a bunch of Iraqi tanks. He sent me the military write-up of it. Otherwise Iraq and A-stan were long after my time.

    Generally speaking I would put an Abrams tank in front of me if I had to go down a road now -- nothing less. They can take the impact of an IED. Back in the day our M-60 tanks had snow plows on the front of them to clear roads with.

    Why aren't they using these now in A-stan and Iraq ?! Are the generals too stupid in this generation ??
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
  18. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    When I was based out of Hoi An there was this red dirt road that ran alongside the Thu Bon River and every morning at dawn the combat engineers would go down the road blowing up mines that were planted by the VC every night.
     
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  19. yiostheoy

    yiostheoy Well-Known Member

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    That's doing it right.

    The 'Nam Generation did not mess around -- once they figured out how Charlie was operating.

    Nobody knew about the extensive spider holes however. The holes were known of but never the entire network which had been built to fight the Japanese and the French by Mr. Victor Charles. That was a big surprise.

    Gives "going underground" a whole new meaning.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
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  20. yiostheoy

    yiostheoy Well-Known Member

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    The main thing that I learned from the Nam Vets who taught me in boot camp was how to kill with a bayonet.

    You need to stab at dead center chest to kill the heart.

    The lungs have 5 lobes and so if you miss the heart it will be a slow kill not a quick kill.

    In a slow kill the enemy can kill you back while he is dying.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
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