I was impressed with the explanation given for the fall of Lucifer which would quite possibly fit with an earth that may well be 4.5 billion years old. Apparently a lot happened between the original creation of the earth and the time when the repairing of the earth was made necessary due to an attempted coup d'etat by Lucifer and the angels who decided to follow him!! www.near-death.com/forum/nde/000/91.html
The NDE of Mellen Benedict takes intelligence/ sentience back pretty much to eternity in the past. http://www.near-death.com/experiences/reincarnation04.html#a05
This sure reminds me of the story of Adam and Iblis from the Koran. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devil_(Islam)
Personally .. I think that all of this fits in rather well with a dilemma we humans may face within a decade or two or three? http://www.politicalforum.com/relig...elligent-androids-how-could-we-test-them.html If we invent super intelligent androids... how could we test them? Might we perhaps invent some sort of virtual reality holographic environment where the attitude and character of an android can be tested to see if they will behave in a manner that is altruistic and humble? The analogy to Adam, Eve, Lucifer and his angels should be obvious! Is our creator going to scale back human freedom of choice somewhat over the coming centuries in order to produce a genuinely peaceful and utopian world? http://www.near-death.com/storm.html#a04 Near death experiencer Howard Storm: ......
post #3 here could help Muslims and Christians and Jews to understand each other a little better..... If Christians and Jews could imagine arch-angels bowing to Adam.......... and at least consider the possibility of Lucifer - Iblis and his third of the angels......… refusing to do so...… then certain verses in the Christian and Jewish scriptures would make more sense....... Genesis 6:2 "That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose." John 10:34 Psalms 82:6
I just got back an interesting reply on a similar topic elsewere on the net....... http://www.christianforums.com/thre...most-emotional-being-in-the-universe.7695357/
Dr. George Ritchie was shown was seems to me to be fifth, sixth, seventh, eighth and even ninth dimensional space time. His description of the highest dimension is certainly inspiring. http://www.near-death.com/science/research/city-of-light.html#a02 Some of the lowest energy levels of the afterlife...... sounded pretty rough! http://www.near-death.com/experiences/notable/george-ritchie.html#a05c
NDE under these contexts verify nothing. Now get say 1000 babies, raise them without any knowledge of religion, medically kill them and bring them back in a study and if the have consistent NDE then in the main it would be convincing but not when people are exposed to religion and tap that in some dream under the case of the body dying causing all kinds of odd brain activity.
If you would like to read about an impressive study you may wish to Google the name Helen Wambach Ph. D. Here is a short summary...... http://www.carolmoore.net/articles/helenwambach.html This is much more indepth...... http://www.pureinsight.org/node/1165 I read both of her books back during the 1990's. I was astonished to see that beginning in 1965, two decades before Dr. Raymond Moody and Oprah turned near death experience into a household word and part of our culture...... Dr. Wambach found that ninety percent of her volunteers reported the typical near death experience at the end of life after life after life........ as she hypnotized volunteers and took them back to what they perceived as "past lives." The fact that her volunteers saw the typical near death experience when taken to the day of their deaths...... amazed me!
Would you prefer to debate somebody who believed in Young Earth Creationism? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_Earth_creationism
Or... replicate the Helen Wambach Ph. D. research in a number of nations to see if you get similar results to what she got in California......
People are beat in by religion and multiple religions from birth to death, if one includes criticism of other religions, and unless you remove that from studies it means little save the subconscious is tapping these myths at the time of death and making them vivid. I had one six hot angels had sex with me and after my sixth orgasm came back threw a tunnel so was that real, I hope so?
But it does fit strangely well with...... http://www.politicalforum.com/index...plications-of-artificial-intelligence.434082/ The Philosophical implications of Artificial Intelligence. ..... combined with the probable implications of...... http://www.politicalforum.com/index...begin-in-matter-or-fundamental-energy.465052/ Where did Intelligence begin, in matter or fundamental energy?
Not quite off topic here, but I remember Dr. Eben Alexander's account of heaven, and he saw a group of angels flying way up in the sky, and they were singing such beautiful and captivating music. The NDE turned Dr Alexander away from being an atheist. Especially since he was adopted, and never knew his parents, or was aware he had a sister who had passed away a few years before his NDE. So his companion in heaven was a lovely young lady, who of he did not know or had ever seen. After his NDE and surviving what no one ever survives, several months later he received communication from his family, and they wanted to create some relationship with him. They ended up sending him a pic of his now deceased sister. He was shocked and astounded, that his sister, whom he had never known, was the same person who showed him around heaven. So, if this is true, what would explain that? Except that he did go to heaven, and his sister that he had never known or seen, met him? He didn't even know he had a sister. So, a dying brain hallucinated a sister, her perfect image, that he had never known? For he was adopted out as a baby, and his sister was yet to be born. Dennis, have your read his book? I read recently that NDEs are remarkably similar generally, regardless of what the culture or beliefs are of the experiencer. Now what the NDE'er percieves in identifying personages may have some cultural context but the canvas upon which perception operates, the background, is generally very similar. So it seems a person's prior religious belief could very well affect perception of what they are seeing. But the overall experience, outside of personage perception are remarkably very similar regardless of religion or cultural conditioning.
So far I have only read articles about his book..... and I just finished listening to this video interview a few moments ago. I love his line:
I like that line you quoted too, Dennis. And Dr. Alexander supports his thinking very well. I forsake reductive materialism long ago, the result of courses at university in philosophy and religion, as well as the thinking of many of the founders of quantum mechanics which I was exposed to while at university. Reductive materialists indulge in faith, assumptions, which morph into dogma. Just like fundamentalist christians. They are two peas in the same pod. Yet neither notice it. My mind, unlike so many people here, is still open to possibilities.
I picked up Dr. Alexander's book a week or so ago but I haven't had an opportunity to get into it just yet.
I bought Dr. Eben Alexander's book a few months ago but I haven't had a chance to get into it yet. I did just listen to an amazing explanation of creation by a near death experiencer...... who was shown there once being only one continent....... then Lucifer was cast down to the earth....... then the water vapour bubble around the earth was broken...... and this is really logical..... It starts at 3:03:01
