negative mass particles > warp drive!

Discussion in 'Science' started by modernpaladin, Aug 31, 2019.

  1. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member

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  2. wgabrie

    wgabrie Well-Known Member Donor

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  3. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member

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    So it would seem.

    Even so, its still the coolest ****!
     
  4. wgabrie

    wgabrie Well-Known Member Donor

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    Yes, it is.
     
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  5. politicalcenter

    politicalcenter Well-Known Member

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    Okay.... But how is it used in a warp drive? I guess I just be ignorant.
     
  6. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member

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    negative mass particles react oppositely of regular particles- when you push on them, they move toward you instead of away. They create an energy density field lower than that of vacuum (normal mass is instead higher), allowing a bubble to (possibly) be created where space time is elongated in front of a craft and shortened behind it. General relatively prohibits faster than light travel for objects that have mass because more energy than exists in the universe would be required to accelerate said object to the speed of light. My understanding is that instead of pushing a craft with energy, utilizing negative mass particles we could manipulate space-time into pulling the craft with vacuum by manipulating relativity. as far as the universe is concerned, the craft would not be moving, but more like elongating toward its destination and then resuming normal shape closer to the destination, while from the perspective of the craft, the universe would be compacting in front of it, and then refilling behind it. So far as we know, there are not any limitations in how far (or 'fast') space-time can be bent (or bubbled) like this, so there aren't any barriers or 'ceilings' to travel via this method.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2019
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  7. politicalcenter

    politicalcenter Well-Known Member

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    I saw a couple of videos on the subject. Still trying to get a proper picture in my mind. Thanx.
     
  8. politicalcenter

    politicalcenter Well-Known Member

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    Okay... Now let's think about the time and its relationship to warp drive. A warped space is putting a long distance inside a shorter distance... correct? ... So if I could go to Mars in a minute it should be a minute on Earth ..... a minute travel time .... and a minute on Mars. And the trip back to earth would be a minute... The round trip would take 2 minutes. Correct? Because we are not going faster per say.... we are making the distance shorter. Correct?
     
  9. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    Everything was at one time or the other.
     
  10. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Well-Known Member

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    Basically yes. However, it isn't a matter of putting a long distance inside a shorter distance. It is actually shortening the distance to Mars by changing the space between Mars and the craft, relative to the craft.

    Relativity is hard to conceptualize. But distance is relative - meaning an ACTUAL distance does not exist. Different observers can measure different distances between any two points and all be correct. It depends on your frame of reference. In Einstein's words, there are no preferred observers.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2019
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  11. politicalcenter

    politicalcenter Well-Known Member

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    Well... I think actual distance does exist but it can be shortened by gravity. I have to have a point of reference in relation to where I am going. And where I am. So the distance is. For it to be a lesser distance space has to be folded upon itself many times.... I guess. It could be called a warp distance. Or warp one distance and time it would take to travel that distance. One G must warp space some. I wonder how much? Still ain't got an imaginary warp drive pictured yet. But am having fun thinking about it.
     
  12. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Well-Known Member

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    You are sitting on earth and measure the distance between two points in space. Let's say you measure 1000 feet.

    Now, I am traveling at 99% of the speed of light past you and along the same line as the two points you measured. I would measure the distance to be about 148 feet.

    Prove to me that your measurement is correct and mine isn't,
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2019
  13. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    I'm suspicious that it may take some real work to jockey these negative mass particles into a configuration where they suddenly have you warping your way through space. I mean, these particles will be doing their thing at all times - they can't be moved into position and then "turned on".


    Plus, let's say you can go really really fast. What happens when you encounter stuff from the size of atoms to asteroids along your way? I haven't heard that negative mass drives would create a mass-free tunnel for you.

    Maybe if it's an unmanned cargo ship it's OK if some percent get obliterated.
     
  14. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member

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    Im certain you're correct- much work yet to be done.

    As far as 'turning them on', it sounds to me like they're always 'on,' which no doubt will necessitate further out-of-the-box creativity.

    From what I understand, the particles simply exert the opposite force of regular-mass particles in a 'well'. As an obstacle is approached, it would be encompassed in the 'well'; its mass will derelatavize (idc if thats not a word ;) ) from the universe and relativize to the craft, so any impact would in effect be at 'normal' speed (still bad, but not like hitting something at light speed). It seems to me, anyway. The main problem would likely be in object detection, since radiative 'scanners' wouldn't likely be able to reach ahead of the craft. It will probably need to be heavily armored...

    Then again, Im not a physicist.I could be completely wrong about all of that...
     
  15. politicalcenter

    politicalcenter Well-Known Member

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    Both would be correct. But warped space is making the distance even shorter. To make a distance from point to point shorter is not the same as FTL travel. Going to the stars in real time rather than the problems with time and very fast speeds. If it took six months to get to a star and back it would take six months travel time for the journey and six months time would elapse on Earth. Because the distance would be shorter... not the increased speed of the craft. So.... you can go FTL without increased acceleration. IMHO it is the only way we will make it to the stars.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2019
  16. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Well-Known Member

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    Where did I say anything about FTL? I can go 1 mph and cause time to dilate and lengths to contract.

    It still depends on your frame of reference. By your logic, warp drive would make Mars closer to earth for everyone.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2019
  17. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Donor

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    Utilizing hyperspace would be better than Warp Drive
    because it isn't like "smog" on the fabric of Space / Time
    as Warp Drive is.

    Jump Gates from normal to hyperspace would reduce
    the power needs of the spaceship. Run 'em like toll booths.


    Moi
    :oldman:
    Ref.: Babylon 5




    Don't :flagcanada:ize,
    Space The Final Frontier.
     
  18. politicalcenter

    politicalcenter Well-Known Member

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    Only if everyone had a warp drive. Like an auto brings cities closer in time.
     

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