Negotiate Peace With Russia to Prevent War Over Ukraine

They were at war after WW1. US and Japanese troops occupied part of russia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ameri...beria,larger Allied North Russia Intervention.

 

I won't bore you with a recitation of my 'credentials' or resume before my retirement from two different Fortune 50 Prime Contractors to the U. S. Government, but I will suggest to you that today's Russian FSB bears little resemblance in nearly every significant point of comparison to the old Soviet KGB.

If nothing else, I further suggest that you familiarize yourself with the man who has been the Director of the FSB since 2008: Alexander Bortnikov. Unfortunately for us, the man is brilliant, with a complex, labyrinthine mentality that perhaps equals that of his boss, Vladimir Putin.

Here are three men every thoughtful American should try to become more familiar with: (Left to Right) Gen. Sergey Shoigu, Russian Minister of Defense; Vladimir Putin, President of the Russian Federation; Alexander Bortnikov, Director of the Russian Federal Security Service (FSB).

 

They only changed the name.

 

I don't doubt what you say, but I'm not sufficiently well-informed to pass judgement on anyone in Ukraine at this point.

Nevertheless, it is widely reported that in 2014, pro-Russian 'sympathizers' were burned to death in a trade union building in Odessa by pro-government 'individuals' who were loyal to the Kiev (Kyiv?) ruling faction. Here's a link to a story in The Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/02/ukraine-dead-odessa-building-fire

To be brief, I would not (NOT) want to be one of those pro-Kiev-faction individuals who can be linked to those killings when/if the Russians take control of any part of Ukraine west of the Dnieper River.

 

I'm interested to know how you know this. Please, do go on.... I'm always curious about what other people think, and why they think it....

 

I know people who had to deal with both the old and the new... Nothing changed but the 3 letters of the name.

 

From what I know Kolomoisky was the payroll behind the burning and hacking of the Russian protesters. He's the mega criminal who is wanted in Russia for bombing Slaviansk with white phosphorus for not allowing fracking, and is also believed to be behind the shoot down of the air liner in Ukraine.

He is also the payroll for the Azov Battalion which has committed quite a few atrocities. When a drunk Kolomoisky was asked by a Russian prankster on video, if it was his men that were behind the shooting of the airliner, he said: "It was no big deal. They wanted to shoot down one plane and another was hit by mistake." The video has since been removed from Youtube.

This would confirm the Russian belief that it was an assassination attempt on Vladimir Putin's life. His plane was the same size and color, and had left the Warsaw airport 2 hours before on his way back from Brazil. I always felt it was Kolomoisky, since he was the Governor of the area at the time, and also owned airlines and had connections with the airport in Kiev and Amsterdam.

 

October 1941 FDR began sending over 11 billion dollars [11 billion in 1941 dollars - about 180 billion in today's dollars] including military aid and equipment [weapons, truck, tanks, planes, ships, etc.] to Stalin.

Democrats and marxists have been team players ever since.

 

I have also known "people", and instead of trading insults with you about this, I'll suggest that you're surely correct if you and your "people" are referring to an overall Russian intelligence mission that is inimical and antagonistic to us in 'the West'... no doubt about that at all....

But what I'm trying to get across, without getting into 'the weeds', is that today's FSB operatives and agents are much, MUCH smarter, and have much more, uh, versatility than the old guys back in the Soviet KGB days. Since Putin rose to power, they're much more highly-educated, often with advanced degrees in a variety of disciplines. Most are fluent in at least four different foreign languages, besides the three main Russian dialects, and they are quite adept at computer science, including many different software platforms -- right down to the machine-language levels!

Afterthought: never underestimate an opponent like Russia because it suffered defeat thirty years ago. "That was THEN, and this is NOW."

. "No sweat! We whipped Russia in World War I, so we can prolly do it again easy...."

 

Ah, Ihor Kolomoisky, the Ukrainian oil and media oligarch who hired TV comedian, Volodymyr Zelensky, to be President of Ukraine after "Porky" Poroshenko was, uh, 'defeated'...? That Kolomoisky?

Right now, Ihor might do well to have his private jet on permanent 'hot-standby', loaded with bags of gold coins and satchels full of euros, ready for a speedy departure to Switzerland 'in-a-New-York-minute'....

. "Oh, my... how time flies...!"

 

The Civil War was still in progress, and US troops were not sent to fight the Bolsheviks.

"Unlike his Allied counterparts, General Graves believed their mission in Siberia was to provide protection for American-supplied property and to help the Czechoslovak Legion evacuate Russia, and that it did not include fighting against the Bolsheviks. Repeatedly calling for restraint, Graves often clashed with commanders of British, French, and Japanese forces, who also had troops in the region and who wanted him to take a more active part in the military intervention in Siberia." Wiki

 

I saw the actual bills a few years back, and there was nothing on them about tanks, planes, ships. The Russians wouldn't have needed tanks since the Russians had 35,000 of them and they were better than the German ones. Also there was no reason for ships since they were land battles, other than the freight charges to send the food over. As for planes, I know that the Russians had lost most of their planes, but I don't recall seeing anything on the bills.

There were some other small items that Russia needed, but the only thing of major importance other than food, were the trucks since they had to carry the food thousands of miles. There were no military arms. The Lend Lease was suggested by Churchill as a humanitarian measure since Leningrad was under siege and the people were starving.

 

I believe Khrushchev stated that the Studebaker truck was the key to Soviet victory over the Nazi military machine.

“In a November 1941 letter to Roosevelt, Soviet Premier Josef Stalin wrote:

“Your decision, Mr. President, to give the Soviet Union an interest-free credit of $1 billion in the form of materiel supplies and raw materials has been accepted by the Soviet government with heartfelt gratitude as urgent aid to the Soviet Union in its enormous and difficult fight against the common enemy — bloodthirsty Hitlerism.”


Sergeant Anthony Gioia, left, a waist gunner in a Boeing B-17 Flying Fortress bomber, shakes hands with a Red Army soldier in 1944. (© Sovfoto/Universal Images Group/Getty Images)

At a dinner toast with Allied leaders during the Tehran Conference in December 1943, Stalin added: “The United States … is a country of machines. Without the use of those machines through Lend-Lease, we would lose this war.”

Nikita Khrushchev, who led the Soviet Union from 1953 to 1964, agreed with Stalin’s assessment. In his memoirs, Khrushchev described how Stalin stressed the value of Lend-Lease aid: “He stated bluntly that if the United States had not helped us, we would not have won the war.”

America sent gear to the USSR to help win World War II, By Lauren Monsen| Sait Serkan Gurbuz -, Apr 29, 2020.
https://share.america.gov/america-sent-equipment-to-soviet-union-in-world-war-ii/

 

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Last I read he was in Israel, probably hiding out while conducting his business. I read an article years ago by a writer who went to his office. He said he had a large tank with sharks and when he pressed a button, food would drop into the tank. The writer said it was quite frightening.

Anyway, I'm curious to know what's going on. Zalensky who worked for Kolomoisky has charged Poroshenko with treason. I know there was a lot of animosity between Ihor and Porky, and I think Kolomoisky might have had to leave Ukraine because of him - but I'm not sure.

Last week Poroshenko risked returning to Ukraine and he's not allowed to leave. He probably has a lot of following from those on his payroll, so I'm wondering if it'll turn into a turf war like the time Saakashvili went back.

 

how about this?

we let Russia annex the Donbas, and in exchange we let the rest of Ukraine join NATO.

 

From the Guardian link:

"The seizure of the trade union building was the violent culmination of a day of street battles in this Black Sea resort city.

"The clashes reportedly began after protesters gathering for a rally in support of a unified Ukraine were attacked by pro-Russia activists armed with clubs and air pistols.

"But the confrontation quickly escalated into a series of skirmishes as the two sides played a deadly cat and mouse game in the centre of the city."

"Combatants on both sides were armed with body armour, helmets and shields and carried baseball bats, chains, metal bars and air pistols."​

Sounds like they were all acting like animals, apart from the initial even that sparked it.

 

No problem.

Both of them have inherit dual citizenship under "right of return"

 

Oh, I'm sure everybody on both sides in Odessa were "badly behaved", but my guess is that if the Russians get their hands on the guys in that Kiev-backed faction which burned people to death that day, there will one HELL of a lot MORE 'misbehavior'....

 

First Barack Obama, Now Joe Biden: Mumbling Our Way Into War.

“Biden could have spent the last year reducing the risk of war by taking the diplomatic initiative with NATO and the United Nations. Instead, Biden allows Putin to make moves — to take the initiative, to test the waters — and then Biden issues weak verbal replies, hasty and unprepared.”

​

"But it gets worse."

Take small bites.

 

North-central Ukraine is so close to Moscow that a ballistic missile fired from that location can strike Moscow in 90 seconds.

Such a deal would be fine with me, but I don't see Putin agreeing.

 

How about closing NATO to ANY new membership, caps on troops and weapons in those already NATO in proximity to Russian borders, and your pipeline, in exchange for Russia upholding the agreement with Ukraine that was done to ensure Ukraine wasn't a nuclear power, and cede occupied Ukranian territory back?

 

Well, I've measured that distance. It's almost exactly 500 miles (805 kilometers) from Kiev to Moscow... and, from Moscow to Kiev. Parenthetically, it's 5,000 miles (8,047 kilometers) and an ocean away from Kiev to Washington D. C.

*** Unrelated comment ***: why in hell would Putin want to take over the entirety of Chernobyl? It is still a large, devastated swath of territory which cannot be safely inhabited by humans for at least many hundreds of years into the future. Just askin'....

 

Perfect, perfect, perfect - this is exactly how soviets newspaper Pravda analized the world situation - some foreign sources wrote about imminent attack on Soviet Union or other peace loving country and Soviet union was obligated to save the world peace - by attacking Finland in 1939, or by attacking Poland two weeks after Germane attack or sending Red Army to Afghanistan in 1980. Yes, I believe it - Ukraine together with NATO wants to attack and conquer Russia. Syria's Assad is great humanist who together with Putin wants to establish democracy, but the US with ISIS want to start WWIII - Jeannette, I believe in every word you are writing!

 

The Guardian is a neo con paper, so I would take anything they write with a grain of salt. I remember when they had photos of the summer resort of Socchi in the winter, and photos of the winter resort in the summer to show the readers how empty the resort was. It was a continuation of the propaganda that started with the Olympic games, so that the oligarchs who had invested $55 billion to restore the resort as a favor to Putin, would get so upset at losing money, that they would overthrow him.

But that's the stupidity of our government. They believed Putin's power came from billionaires the way it does in the US, not realizing his power comes from the people that knew him and the Intel agencies that he was once a part of.

I saw a lot of videos of what was going on during the fire. From what I know, the Russian protesters were camped on the grounds in front of the Trade Union Building - which included children as well. In the meantime, the nationalists had come down from Lviv for a game and then began going towards the protesters camp.

Someone told the protesters to go into the building so they'll be safe - which they did to their detriment because the nationalists were waiting for them. Most were led into the basement and were being hacked, and from what I read the body count in the basement wasn't included, so by some estimations the death toll came to about 200. I did see a video of the protesters as they were being led into the basement where the nationalists were waiting. They must have gotten the video from them.

There was a phone call from a cleaning woman in the building who could be heard screaming that she was not a protester and yet they killed her. There was another video of a man speaking on his cell phone outside the building telling someone that he was not a part of what was going on, and another video of the same man shooting at a protester trying to escape the fire.

I even saw a video of young girls sitting in a circle and being taught how to make Molotov cocktails to throw at the building as well as those who jumped from the building and were being hacked to death as they landed. Someone even posted a recording of Kolomoisky giving the order to kill any protester in the hospital who had managed to escape.

 

Thinking of it in terms of the Cuban missile crisis, the distance from north-central Ukraine to Moscow is about the same as the distance from Cuba to Miami.

There's actually an old soviet airbase (Google Earth shows trees growing in the runway now) that would be perfect for bombing Moscow with fighter jets if it were repaired and brought back into working order.

I think this is the airbase that I am remembering:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chervone-Pustohorod

If we brought Ukraine into NATO we could refurbish that airbase and station a bunch of F-35s there.

Are they going to wait out the cesium-137 and strontium-90 then? That puts the nuclear war/fallout question in an interesting light. A large nuclear war will cover the entire earth in strontium-90 and cesium-137.