Nestle has made criminal deals with the government to take water from the Great Lakes at very little cost. This water is then used for bottled water or to be shipped to China. The U.S. Government is not morally fit to deal with this situation. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPQGxuBaTLU
Who owns the water of the Great Lakes, not in respect of the surface, which is assumed to be national territory, but below? If all of the water is owned by the people owning the surface and the government is the elected legal deputy of the people, against whom was the crime of conspiracy between government and the NestleeTrust committed? What is an "morally appropriate" approach to the subject? Which prize for the water do you regard not to be a dumping price? Is everything you do not agree with a criminal activity?
Certainly. It is raining and snowing without end, since 10 years we have year after year what experts call a "New Millenium Flood, the greatest since weather was recorded". In the same time other people talk about the "not-so-far-away Armaggeddon of drought", our civilization developing into a Mars like desert landscape. If that happens, it will happen anywhere but here. If the topic above is the unequal distribution of water resources, the UN in fact recently published an opinion paper that those resources should be shared by all. Please note: they didn't say: for free. If those sitting on oil run out of water it is in fact not logic why they should get it for free. After all we have to pay for the resource "oil" too. That is why I was asking: who is the owner and what could be a reasonable price. In addition: what NESTLEE is doing is exactly what was recommended by the United Nations. The fact that the Chinese want to buy the water looks for me like they don't have it. China exports many natural resources to other countries for a high price. Would you ship the water to China for free? Therefore the second question: what is criminal or unethical in the deal and how would a morally and/or ethically perfect solution look like?
I would think the Northeast the Northwest and Canada would have to decide the details . I see desalination as the cure though
Unless climate change ruins water, it is an abundant supply and the corporations could not ruin the supply as they do with oil since that is not a renewable.... They could use it for hydrogen energy, but it is recycled and rains back down. People who drink water have it recycled back into the ecosystem too. It will not be ruined for a very long time when there are more humans to drink than there is water falling, similar to places like Africa but then there is well water to solve that. Also developing tech to remove the salt from the ocean water, this is one resource that is great to profit from.
I don't see the problem. The government owns the water and they have sold it. How is that nestle stealing?
Nestle isn't "stealing" water since it was given permission by Michigan to build their plant that pumps water from rivers and streams that feed the Great Lakes, so I'm not sure why it would be presented that way, but that doesn't mean that it isn't a problem. It's been very controversial since the beginning, and remains so. Here's a more personal perspective: http://blog.mlive.com/muskegon_chronicle_extra/2007/01/nestle_raises_stakes_in_bottle.html
Yeah, they're not stealing the water, but they are pumping the (*)(*)(*)(*) out of it, which is reducing levels considerably.
What utter nonsense! The poster did not backup this propaganda with any legit news source so I find it necessary to correct this little tidbit of crap. Myth 1: Water levels are declining because companies are pumping millions of gallons of water from springs every day in northern Michigan, and its being bottled up and taken away. On a recent Water Currents post on lake levels, commenter Bob wrote: No mention is made about the companies that are pumping millions of gallons of water, legally, every day, out of springs in northern Michigan. These springs are connected to the lakes and yes the water is being bottled up and taken away. Although groundwater extraction is an important concern for reasons that I wont elaborate here, there is really no comparison with the amount of water lost through evaporation. John Lenters, a lake and climate scientist at the University of NebraskaLincoln, helped put some of these numbers in perspective in a previous post on the topic. On average, Lake Superior loses 29 billion gallons of water PER DAY through evaporation, he told me. His calculation is based on the annual average rate, but he notes that the daily evaporation rate can be ten times higher during the late fall. The difference between evaporation from the largest of the five lakes and pumping rates in Northern Michigan is roughly a factor of 1,000 or more he says. Myth 2: Water from the Great Lakes is secretly being shipped to China. In a comment that was removed from this post due to other offensive language, someone wrote: THE CHINESE ARE TAKING OUR WATER AND LEAVING US WITH THE [TOILET] WATER!! TANKERS WITH OUR FRESH WATER IN HUGE BLADDER-LIKE TANKS TO PUT INTO THEIR [AQUIFERS] THAT THEY HAVE ABUSED AND ARE NOW DRIED UP!! Perhaps this is better categorized as a conspiracy theory. Its origins go back to concerns raised when opening the Great Lakes to international shipping in the 1950s. The myth is perpetuated today in the blogosphere and sometimes includes the detail that bladder tanks are being used to transport the water in the holds of ships bound for China. All ships entering and leaving the Great Lakes must pass through the Great Lakes St. Lawrence Seaway System, where shipping traffic and cargo loads are closely monitored as ships pass through the lock system. In 2012, the Seaway Corporation logged 1,491 downbound transits through the Lake Ontario-Montreal section with a total cargo load of 18.9 million metric tons. According to the Seaway Corporation, traffic headed out the St. Lawrence River in 2012 carried 17,760 metric tons on average. If water was secretly being shipped, these sea-going freighters would need to be converted over from carrying dry cargo such as grain, coal, and iron ore to be able to carry liquids such as water. Using the example from Lake Superior, even if each ship could carry 2.5 million gallons of water in bladder tanks, it would take more than 10,000 ships a day leaving Lake Superior to equal the amount of water lost to evaporation in one day. This would create quite a traffic jam at the Soo Locks. http://newswatch.nationalgeographic.com/2013/08/20/where-did-the-water-go-busting-5-myths-about-water-levels-on-the-great-lakes/
While it's true that the level of the Great Lakes is declining for a number of reasons, many of much more significance than bottled water going to China, this is still a factor. One cannot remove something without replacing it without contributing to the decline. There is a law that prohibits those who do not live within the Great Lakes water basin from tapping into it - and this includes counties in states bordering the Great Lakes - there evidently is a loophole that allows it to be hauled away in small containers, hence bottled water being shipped to China as even a city such as Waukesha, WI, is having difficulty getting permission to purchase Lake Michigan water. http://wuwm.com/post/waukesha-water-diversion-application-moves-forward-great-lakes-compact-test I question whether we should be allowing water to be shipped to China, but it sounds we have a couple of Michigan governors to thank for that on the American side of the Lakes; former Gov. Engler, for sure.
You may have missed Myth number 2. Water is not being shipped to China from the Great Lakes! There is also nothing in your posted link about water being shipped to China. Perhaps this is better categorized as a conspiracy theory. Its origins go back to concerns raised when opening the Great Lakes to international shipping in the 1950s. The myth is perpetuated today in the blogosphere and sometimes includes the detail that bladder tanks are being used to transport the water in the holds of ships bound for China. All ships entering and leaving the Great Lakes must pass through the Great Lakes St. Lawrence Seaway System, where shipping traffic and cargo loads are closely monitored as ships pass through the lock system. In 2012, the Seaway Corporation logged 1,491 downbound transits through the Lake Ontario-Montreal section with a total cargo load of 18.9 million metric tons. According to the Seaway Corporation, traffic headed out the St. Lawrence River in 2012 carried 17,760 metric tons on average. If water was secretly being shipped, these sea-going freighters would need to be converted over from carrying dry cargo such as grain, coal, and iron ore to be able to carry liquids such as water. Using the example from Lake Superior, even if each ship could carry 2.5 million gallons of water in bladder tanks, it would take more than 10,000 ships a day leaving Lake Superior to equal the amount of water lost to evaporation in one day. This would create quite a traffic jam at the Soo Locks.
The myth is that it is secretly being shipped; it's not being done in secret, but openly, which I thought was the point you were making. They can't carry it in bladder tanks because of the laws against taking it out of the Great Lakes basin, but because of the loophole in the law, it can be shipped out in small containers, including bottles. As I said, other factors are affecting the level of the Great Lakes more significantly, but this is still a loss as it's not being replaced. The point is, as we are facing lower water levels, perhaps we should be doing all that we can to diminish the loss of water in the Great Lakes. Even a little bit adds up over time. I think it's something to be concerned about rather than simply dismissed. http://www.examiner.com/article/sell-china-water-from-great-lakes http://www.annarbor.com/news/opinion/we-need-to-stop-the-exportation-of-water-from-the-great-lakes-to-china/ ....although a controversial legal loophole allows Great Lakes water to be bottled and sold, the lake water that’s disappearing to China enclosed in Nestle company plastic is a fraction of Chicago’s daily use alone. It’s not enough to drain the lake by a long shot. But bottling and some municipal water uses are a net loss to the lake. http://www.wbez.org/news/what%E2%80%99s-causing-record-low-levels-lake-michigan-105262
You just ain't gettin it. I can't help you there. Why don't you spend a little time in researching your sources a little and make sure that they are not an opinion piece and make sure they are based on fact and not heresy?
I'm getting it just fine. I've researched this plenty and I live in Michigan and know some of the people who have been involved. China is one of Nestle's biggest customers. http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-01-24/chinas-unsafe-water-is-nestl-s-opportunity Nestle does get water from sources that feed the Great Lakes in Michigan, just as I said. Perhaps you should take your own advice. Just because you haven't heard of it doesn't mean it isn't happening. Just because you don't approve of my sources doesn't mean you know more about it than the authors of said articles, who have provided sources. The quickness of your replies tells me that you didn't read my sources, much less research the validity of the claims.
NOWHERE IN THAT FRICKING ARTICLE IS THERE A CLAIM OF SELLING WATER FROM THE GREAT LAKES! Read it! I actually read them. Examiner.com is known for inaccuracies and the person that tried writing the article did not even claim it. Who wrote the article? He/she also never put their name to it. The other two were just garbage. That is the problem with the internet. You MUST get your sources right. The once posted NEVER said a word about getting water from anywhere in America. Please read it! I am done.
Try reading and responding to what I've written instead of shouting at me. As it is, you haven't refuted one thing I've said except to claim one of my sources gets it's facts wrong - without any proof - and simply dismiss the others as garbage. Again, without any reason. And that's supposed to pass for discussion/debate/rebuttal. As you shout at me. Impressive. BUT DO HAVE A GREAT NIGHT ALL THE SAME!
