Neurosurgeon Has Out-of-Body Experience; Believes In Afterlife Now

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...ed-out-of-body-experiences-describes-his-own/

I've always been fascinated by the phenomenon of near death and out-of-body experiences, especially when they are experienced by skeptics in positions of authority (psychologists, biologists, etc.)

This case is interesting, because prior to his experience he thought of such experiences as nothing more than products of the brain.


<<< MODERATOR EDIT: MISLEADING TITLE >>>

 

Just so I get this right, a life long church going christian who had been preached to his whole life about heaven and who has read many reports of out of body experiences, goes into a coma and has dreams of "heaven" while in his coma?

It's called the power of suggestion...which works particularly well for the religious.

 

He was not a Christian. He was an atheist.

Why the hostility and the lies?

 

Weird, no where in the article does it say he was an atheist, in fact there was this comment...

"Church, for Alexander, now has an entirely different meaning..."

Do you even read the articles you post or do you just peruse the titles looking for ones that make you feel better?

 

1. Of course I read the article.

2. I'm an agnostic. I don't need to "feel better," and I certainly don't like being patronized.

3. When he said that church has a "different meaning," he meant that he viewed it as an atheist would. The experience changed his view.

4. If you simply Google him, you can find out all about his past.

 

Funny, I didn't read that in "The Blaze" article.

This author has been debunked several times, including from the emergency room physician and his private physician.

&#8220;There are numerous episodes where it appears to have been perhaps some dramatization or artistic license taken,&#8217;&#8217; Dittrich said.

A note from Editor in Chief David Granger:

Dr. Eben Alexander's Proof of Heaven: A Neurosurgeon's Journey into the Afterlife has sold nearly two million copies and remained on best-seller lists for over 35 weeks. But a months-long investigation of Dr. Alexander's past and some of the book's claims reveals a series of factual omissions and inconsistencies that call significant parts of Dr. Alexander&#8217;s story into question. Before he was a celebrated "man of science" who visited the afterlife, Dr. Alexander was something else: a neurosurgeon with a troubled history and a man in need of reinvention.

The Esquire article isn&#8217;t the first time that Alexander's claims have been come into question.

In April, Michael Shermer at Scientific American said the author's &#8216;evidence is proof of hallucination, not heaven.&#8217;

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...tor-treated-seven-day-coma.html#ixzz2aqVkTwiA
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What you got is a shyster who decided to turn his meningitis affliction into a cash cow, just like you see TV preachers do every week.

But it won't make any difference to the saved and devout, for them it will be evidence of "heaven" (even though nothing in this guys account proves the christian god or jesus) to help prop up their sagging faith.

 

I don't know why the Blaze was reporting on this in 2012, or why you'd repost it in 2013. It's old news, and not entirely accurate. In fact, the most important idea, that there was no higher brain functions at the time of the visions, was straight-up wrong. Like most such stories, there seems to have been significant embellishment, and even then, it's not really evidence of anything. The human brain is an incredibly complex organ, and can create intense hallucinations. I don't see such near-death experiences as evidence of anything.

 

If you are so fascinated, why didnt you investigate it more thoroughly?

 

I understand that you'd prefer to gravitate towards like-minded people, but if you go beyond that, you'll find that he's already answered these accusations.

 

Why dis you feel the need to lie in the title? This person never claimed to be an atheist.

 

And I honestly don't care. NDEs involve situations where the brain is under a massive amount of stress, and often dying of oxygen deprivation. The result of this is vivid hallucinations, which are often remembered entirely different from what they actually were, and then furthermore embellished. Hell, for all we know, this guy could just be lying to us. Either way... Why should I care?

 

Except, of course, when you have NDEs and OBEs experienced by more than one person.

And what about people who've been blind or deaf for for long periods of time being able to describe what they see and hear?

 

If, by "this person", you mean Dr. Alexander, if you read the book he was not only an atheist, but almost militantly so. I've actually spoken with him on a couple of occasions and am well versed with his story. It is quite compelling.

If, by "this person", you meant someone else, disregard.

- - - Updated - - -

Oxygen deprivation does not cause hallucinations.

 

For example?

For example? A persistent problem with NDEs/OBEs is exaggeration after the fact, and a complete inability to recreate what happened, or indeed verify that it happened in the first place. A lot of people cite an example with a woman who purportedly was able to know things she couldn't have otherwise known, but there's absolutely no solid evidence that it actually happened that way. This is, as said, a repeating problem.

Hmm, funny. Where did I hear that?

 

If by " solid evidence " you mean a scientific proof, you'll never have it, because there are many mechanics in the human brain wich are still unknown. You talk like we know everything of human brain and all it's capabilities, but actually there are plenty of things that scientists cannot explain scientifically, giving most banal explanation " hallucinations " when they face something unclear to them ( intellectual dishonesty is called ). It is a shame, but it is a fact that some people just hate everything that goes beyond them and their all powerful science, just like religious fanatics hate other religions

 

What i found interesting, and what id always hoped if heaven in true, was that guy wasnt religious (but likely a good man) and still made it. Maybe he lived by morals on par with those taught by religion i dont know, but interesting all the same.

 

Well, no, I mean just basic scientific rigor. Like, say, establishing that a story is actually true. Stories like the aforementioned one with the shoe are utterly uninteresting for the same reason anecdotes about a psychic predicting something and that thing happening (where we can't establish either) are uninteresting - if you want to posit something supernatural, most people would reasonably expect actually decent evidence. Not just hearsay.

 

Share to care and care to share; Rinse and repeat.

Do you mean the mechanism of remembering is different?

(“Time is a linear”)

The idea that you can make some assertion about the memory of an hallucination: you get the “clutching at straws” award for August; “often remembered entirely different”: means that when it is remembered, it may NOT (often) share ANY resemblance to the original;

(“Memory is a stranger”)

And when the poor slob recounts the memory of the hallucination (something fabricated by the very brain operating in this drama), he twists it out of its original mal-shaped form.

(“History is for fools”)

Does anybody know who cares? Who can say?

Try “Are vivid hallucinations” not, “is”. (Plurality rules are not petty. If you are going to flail k_ock-sureness--as you do--, then you must not make these errors.)

New definition: Stagnation - the result of being stalled in a pool of holy writing.

(> . . . <)
The monkey looked up at the stars
And he thought to himself
Memory is a stranger
History is for fools
And he cleaned his hands
In a pool of holy writing
Turned his back on the garden
And set out for the nearest town
Hold on hold on soldier
When you add it all up
The tears and marrowbone
There's an ounce of gold
And an ounce of pride in each ledger
And the Germans killed the Jews
And the Jews killed the Arabs
And Arabs killed the hostages
And that is the news
And is it any wonder
That the monkey's confused
He said Mama Mama
The President's a fool
Why do I have to keep reading
These technical manuals
And the joint chiefs of staff
And the brokers on Wall Street said
Don't make us laugh
You're smart kid
Time is linear
Memory's a stranger
History's for fools
Man is a tool in the hands
Of the great God Almighty
(> . . . <)

 

I think I understood maybe one sentence of that post.

 

Shall I guess the one? (tee hee) The "new definition".

Roger Waters' "album" has some profound ideas; the music is difficult when he sings; I'm going to start a thread on one theme. (There will be another thread--not related to Amused To Death--which, I hope, will render the "idea" of reincarnation empty--something to "live for" for the imminently suicidal.)

 

He is a neuro-surgeon...it takes years of dedication and study...
Years of devoting one's time and energy to the pinnacle of the medical profession....brain surgery.
So whether he may or may not attend Church negates the possibility his experience is valid?


He's a man of science, is he not? There may be rational explanations for these experiences, but he is a man of science and I sincerely doubt he would ruin his reputation as such, merely for profit and exploitation. He believed he experienced an after-life...he has no rational explanation for it...and as he is a man of logic and rationality....I tend to believe him.

I'm sorry, but I'm more inclined to listen to a neurosurgeon's attestation than athest's on message boards whose biggest accomplishment in life has been leveling up in World of Warcraft.

Perhaps those of you who ridicule this medical doctor would like to post their curriculum vitae?

Doctor => Medical degree
Typical online atheist => Beat Final Fantasy VIII in less than 3 days

Oh I guess, a scientist's opinion is only valid if they are avowed atheists...that way it affirms your pseudo-inttellectualism to use others to think for yourself...because I seriously...seriously doubt...any of the online atheist who hover around message boards religion sections, are actually scientists...or have any sort of post-graduate education and training...any sort at all...even a doctorate in basket weaving....they merely use legitimate scientists as their own mouthpieces when it suits them and when it suits their agenda.

This guy from so and so...who is a way better scientist than this failing neurosurgeon who merely wanted to reinvent themselves and exploit the religious....

You're not scientists...so how is using someone else who is...to represent you..any different than the OP..yet the OP is riduculed..

Phonies....

 

I'm sorry but your entire post is a big ad hominem, dismissing arguments because you dislike the people who are making them. Whether or not this doctor is a "man of science" is irrelevant if his reasons for concluding that his experience was supernatural was unscientific. The great thing about science is that there are no scientific authorities, this doctor could be the greatest neurosurgeon in the world and he would still need to present good evidence for his claim for peer review before anyone would accept his claim. I cannot claim to be a neurosurgeon but I am well versed in the procedures and methodology of the scientific method and I know that this doctor's anecdotal evidence is worth nothing to science.

 

Have you read the book?

How about reading the book and use the "scientific method" you're the alleged expert in..to counter the assertions claimed by the doctor...one by one...instead of a complete dismissal without even knowing what is presented as evidence of the metaphysical.

Whatever happened to examining the evidence prior to dismissing it?

 

The power to think beyond the bounds of sense and empirical reason...is called invention

There may be a sensible explanation for what happened to the doctor...a cause and effect...it just isn't known yet...
for example only 10% of the observable Universe is actually understood....we give the other 90% names like "Dark energy" or "Dark matter"...but in truth it's unknown....

I haven't read the book, so I have no idea if the author is saying "God talked to him" and a purely metaphysical approach to what occurred...so I have no comment either way...

I just know the militant atheist agenda has nothing to do with the scientific method...it's an agenda to rid the World of organized religion with a complete dismissal.....for poltical reasons...

Karl Marx - Religion is the opiate of the masses...

Those on this thread or reading it...instantly dismissing the claims of the book....I again...seriously...seriously doubt...have even read it. They have no interest in reading it...merely in knee jerk reactions to dismissing all aspects of religious beliefs. This is their modus operandi...and they are phoney....

Someone read the book...and present logical...counter-arguments...

i.e.

At this point, where the doctor claims he saw visions...one explanation could be the brainstem took over functions of the frontal cortex...I don't know...but I see none of that...merely a complete dismissal...without even knowing the evidence presented you're attempting to dismiss. The object is to offer an explanation...

I see none of that...and I never do..so why would this thread be different than any other the atheists enjoy hovering around in between bouts of role playing games..because they are anything but scientists themselves....

So much for scientific methodology..

 

He never claimed to be a Christian either.