Neutrality of Teachers

The pay is far too low to attract enough qualified instructors in mathematics, computer sciences, sciences, technology, and trades.

 

You're going to have to explain here, because I don't know exactly what you are referring to as "critical thinking". I'm speaking of it in the traditional Socratic method of teaching.

 

Parental support costs nothing. All it takes is self-sacrifice and dedication.

How do you explain (to yourself) the fact that 40% of the student body in a very high achieving academically selective school in NY, come from impoverished households? Consider they even had to compete to get in to the school in the first place.

The academically selective public schools in my country have an even higher proportion of students from 'poor' families. Often the parents themselves are not educated, either. Cleaners, janitors, taxi drivers, public servants, etc.

 

Again, show me proof to back up your belief.

What country are you in?

 

You have no idea why bad teachers are often not fired.

 

They think you wanted to brainwash your students.

 

As a parent, I looked at how my children did on tests, and what they said about teachers, classmates, their classes, and the school. I'd ask "what did you study today?" and then see what they could teach me about what they learned. We'd then discuss what they learned, and I'd look for flaws in their reasoning.

That's how I measured teacher performance. The tests were checked and graded, and I went over the answers, and why they were wrong, or why the question seems rather odd. A good teacher is going to stand out by how much they learned in class and how much was retained for at least until dinnertime when those questions were raised.

Teachers seem to look at it completely differently. The rationale seems to be that so long as they're doing what should be a perfectly wonderful job, then they're doing their job.

https://www.educationnext.org/publi...-schools-universal-vouchers-2018-ednext-poll/

. School vouchers. A 54% majority of the public supports “wider choice” for public-school parents by “allowing them to enroll their children in private schools instead, with government helping to pay the tuition,” a 9-percentage-point increase over a year ago. Opposition to vouchers has fallen from 37% to 31%. Approval for vouchers targeted to low-income families has not changed. Just 43% express a favorable view, the same level as in 2017. African American (56%) and Hispanic (62%) respondents are more favorably disposed toward vouchers for low-income families than are whites (35%).

I didn't think I would have to defend that. It's pretty common knowledge.

Not exactly glowing praise in favor of public schools. There are lots of reasons why government shouldn't be involved in education, but perhaps the lack of motivation to actually educate students is chief among them. To politicians, they are mere cannon fodder in training.

 

In my opinion guided by experience, some common traits/decisions that put/keep families in poverty also have negative influence on children’s achievement. But lack of money is not the cause of poor achievement. Parental support needed for children to succeed costs nothing.

 

We agree on the stats. I’m just pointing out poverty and less than stellar educational outcomes are symptoms of the same problems. One isn’t caused by the other. Basically, responsible adults have more money and are involved with their kids. Irresponsible adults fail economically and in parenting.

You can buy a lot of books for what a little whiskey and smokes set you back.

 

Social skills are also learned at school. As a teacher, I can't wait for your child to learn people skills at home when I have to manage the educations of 30+ students in my classroom. I am charged by my employer with acting in loco parentis (look it up). I won't even get into situations where parents fail to teach their child basic social skills.

You're flat wrong. A portion of intelligence is inherited.

But not everyone can become a doctor, no matter how determined.

What are "academics" in your mind? Do history and literature qualify?

You come across as a rightwinger who believes we can stop liberal teachers from influencing children by closely watching the curriculum. Three decades of teaching school tells me you're dreaming. If we want conservatives teaching in significant numbers, we have to raise the pay. Even Christian private schools have a lot of liberal teachers.

I taught computer science and business subjects to high school students and adults, but I also taught history. I'm committed to students getting an education that goes beyond the three r's and job training.

You're trying to educate children on the cheap and at the same time use the funding shortfall engineered by conservatives as an excuse for pursuing your particular vision of education.

FYI, we moved a lot of vocational education to college and university because students are inclined to change vocational choices and a lot of high school job training is wasted, the equipment to do job training is increasingly expensive, and teacher pay is too low to hire enough qualified staff in mathematics, computer science, the sciences, trades, and technology.

How about raising teacher pay so we can attract better qualified staff?

So, what am I supposed to do with a student who isn't absorbing "life skills" at home?

 

Thanks for sharing. It must be frustrating being a teacher and having to try and pick up for lack of parenting as well. People who have kids they have no intention of supporting make me sick.

Here’s my experience. Myself and many people I know had parents who chose to live in poverty so that kids could be well educated. But it wasn’t inner city. People who choose that path are just in trouble period. I don’t have an answers except to get people out of that lifestyle. And I’m not one to force them out.

 

Teachers who don't know how to deal with disruptive students without screaming, hitting, or belittling them risk getting turfed.

 

I feel sorry for the kids, but at some point hard decisions have to be made on allocation of finite resources based on ROI. But that’s way off topic. I suppose the greatest value a teacher can offer in the circumstances you describe is encouragement to dream beyond children’s current situation/paradigm.

 

A challenge, but helping students is what it's all about.

 

Are any teachers helping students prepare to be better parents to stop the vicious cycle?

 

Good point. The most valuable part of my “education” was learning that money shouldn’t be your goal in life and that the world is big and filled with fascinating things and opportunities.

 

Well, I’ve never disagreed with that. I think it’s sad we don’t teach any life skills much anymore.

I went to good schools. But most of what I learned about money and opportunities came from....my parents.