Norway woman faces three years jail for misgendering if convicted

I enjoy reading articles, not to get news from but out of interest. Free West Media is one of them. Occasionally they come up with a gem and this is one of them.

I long ago stopped being surprised at what comes out of Europe, just a sign of the times in the society we live in. As you start reading the first sentence, look a little to your right “Read more” and plenty there to make you want to emigrate. No wonder the outside world is trying to keep us at arms-length!

Three years in prison for stating a man can’t be a mother
“Norwegian prosecutors are investigating "hateful" tweets by feminist Christina Ellingsen directed at a man claiming to be a lesbian woman. If convicted, Ellingsen faces up to three years in prison.”

 

she will not do 3 years, I think we all know that, but makes for interesting click bait to put that in the title, I agree

now if she is actually sentenced to 3 years, let us know

 

Yes, she probably wouldn’t get that much time and they’re probably quoting the maximum.

“… a Norwegian man was already convicted of “insulting” and “misgendering” a transgender male on Facebook. He was sentenced to 21 days in prison and a fine of around 1500 euros.”

Click bait? Are you saying the story is false? Concentrate on the story, not the punishment. You think this is normal?

 

I am saying the story used the "3 years" in the title to get clicks

 

You hear about the heterosexual woman suing a man for standing her up? Because he never filed a motion for dismissal, if he had not shown up to court, she would have won $10,000 off of him.

That remind you of normal?

They don't have freedom of speech over there I guess. Russia has similar punishments just for not calling their war a special military operation.

 

I'm confused.. Did the woman claim a man can't be a mother, or did a man claim he was a lesbian? How are they related? Is a lesbian woman who is a man claiming also to be a mother? It's hard to know, and frankly, I have no motivation to click the link....

 

Very probably, but it doesn't mean the story isn't true so not click bait.

 

If you won't read the story, I'll let you figure it out then.

 

Yes, Europe is now becoming very authoritarian. Russia is at war. In war time dissent is usually banned and punished.

 

According to the article she’s being investigated for violating hate speech laws.

I did some quick searches on the new site and it appears they have a pretty strong right wing bent with a bad track record for factual reporting. Given the clear bias in their word choice I’d wager they’re painting a pretty rosy picture of her actions.

 

Yes, ‘hate speech’ is the catch all term used over here for anything that causes offence.

 

Have you considered that it could be such a gem because it's been cut, polished and set in a shiny metal?

It's difficult to get lots of clear information on this given where it happened and how relatively insignificant it is but it does seem clear that Ellingsen isn't being investigated for "misgendering" or "stating a man can't be a mother". She is be investigated for directly harassing and insulting an individual on the basis of their gender identity, which could well be illegal under Norwegian law (just as it would be there and elsewhere if it had been on the basis of sex, race or religion).

And, as has already been pointed out, there is literally zero chance of her being given three years imprisonment even if she was convicted. That is an all too common fraud committed by tabloid media of presenting the maximum sentence for a class of offense with zero consideration or clarification. As a general rule when reading a tabloid headline, your first thought should always be; "So which part of this headline is being misleading?"

There is a valid question as to whether her actions should be illegal (which is why the complaint is being investigated after all) but that is no excuse to misrepresent what she did or what the case is actually about. This is the best source I could find about the story (in Norwegian but auto-translation seems to work well), which does suggest this shouldn't be illegal but also covers some of the misrepresentation of the facts (unfortunately, their actual list of all the relevant tweets itself seems to be behind a paywall).

https://subjekt.no/2022/07/17/smaklose-og-svaert-usaklige-ytringer-fra-christina-ellingsen/

 

I’d imagine there’s a threshold that has to be met. Something the average person isn’t going to violate.

 

In the UK it’s speech or behaviour that causes offence within the sight or hearing of another. It’s up to the police to decide what constitutes that offence.

 

Yes she caused a trans’ offence. She deliberately said that a man can’t be a mother. In our new-age double speak, it’s classed as misgendering. Is that a crime? Should it be? Is dissent or causing offence now a mainstream crime? Is that how far down the road we’ve gone?

 

Yes, it's clear clickbait. Yes, it's overdramatized. Yes, it's a biased news source. And that's unfortunate, because had it not been, the story still would have been noteworthy and people may have taken it more seriously.

People should not be going to jail for just "misgendering" somebody, not for 3 years, and not for 1 day.

 

Whether she gets 3 years or not, to have that number hang over someone's head for such a nothingburger is extraordinary indeed.

 

In which way is it biased? It either happened or it didn’t. People are going to jail for misgendering.

“… a Norwegian man was already convicted of “insulting” and “misgendering” a transgender male on Facebook. He was sentenced to 21 days in prison and a fine of around 1500 euros.”

I’m not surprised at what comes out of Europe now. All that’s missing is a podium that western leaders stand on and wave to crowds marching past. I exaggerate, but not by much. If I remember rightly, Sweden also had something like this a few years ago where they brought in a law in making it an offence to criticize mass immigration or the politicians who supported it online. If all dissent is ‘hate speech’, where does it end? When opinions that aren’t sanctioned are now considered illegal, where did democracy go and what kind of society is going to come out of it?

 

It is not going to be 3 years.

And the source is a biased right wing tilt that has an agenda. That doesn't make it wrong. But it does mean it won't be taken as seriously as if it was less obviously biased.

What's unfortunate is that the point is a good one. People should not be legally in trouble for just "misgendering". Actual harassment should be required.

 

it's always biased right or left wing, isn't it.

 

She did those things but they (alone) aren't what she is being investigated for. It is about her alleged harassing of an individual on the basis of their race, religion, sex or gender identity.

I think the general law (on all it's grounds) is valid but whether this specific incident is in breach is an open question (again, hence the investigation). Dissent isn't a crime in itself (though it could be a motive). Causing offence can be in some situations (obscenity laws are commonly on the basis of perceived or potential offence for example), but yet again, just "causing offence" isn't the basis of this investigation.

 

Yes, but some more than others.

 

She made comments which caused someone offence. You can call that harrasement or hate speech, but she said what she thought and is now in deep trouble for it. Semantics doesn't excuse what happened.

 

What I meant was that whatever is said, someone from the left or right will denounce it. Facts are very rarely used now.

 

oh, I agree, like going after abortion doctors and such

"Indiana AG Faces Ethics Complaint For Going After Abortion Doctor Who Helped 10-Year-Old Rape Victim"

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alison...lped-10-year-old-rape-victim/?sh=39be59be2211