I really hate to get emotional on this forum but there is one thing I can't abide; religion. I have never really believed in a God but could only really be said to have considered the subject in depth when I was about 11 or 12. It was only at this age did I realise that there were people in the world who did. I had assumed that it was akin to Santa Claus, everyone being in on the secret. To my dismay however I discovered that religion was not only widespread but also immensely powerful. Growing up in Catholic Ireland, I received all the sacraments from Baptism to Confirmation (still believing it was a social custom of no real importance), this was mainly due to how it was forced upon us in schools which are predominantly run by the Catholic Church, something I never noticed as a child. When I did turn 11/12 and began to speak out against religion openly (particularly in our religion classes at school) I was a fully-fledged atheist and could take on any of my religion teachers who quickly turned their attention to...less questioning...students. I never considered myself a Catholic but I never formally left (never bothered). Recently however I had some free time and so decided to go about it and spoke to the priest of the local parish. He said it would he would investigate it. While I have yet to hear back from him I have discovered in the mean time that the Catholic Church no longer accepts formal defections. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formal_act_of_defection_from_the_Catholic_Church. While i have to speak to the priest again this very fact irks me no end. How dare they count me among their number? Many of my friends ask why I care. Well there is a very good reason as to why I care. The Catholic Church derives its credibility and power from the number of people they claim. When they approach politicians in Ireland and point to the ~90% Catholic population they appear relevant, they appear to be in touch with the people, they appear to be important. It is through these statistics which do not accurately reflect the level of religious belief that they defend the virtual Church monopoly on schooling, that they defend the Church's involvement in the healthcare system. Well, I say no longer. How dare they hold a politician's ear in my name, how dare they manipulate the health and education system in my name, how dare they systematically rape and abuse entire generations of children in my name?! NOT IN MY NAME!
I have a Catholic family (I have Irish ancestors on both my father and mother's side) but they were never very super religious themselves. I still had to go to church with my mother and went to Sunday school, but my dad never went to church. I never really was very religious though and abandoned organized religion soon after I became a teenager. I have no problems with religion though as long as they don't interfere with government and other people's lives. I realize that life can be very tough and people have different ways to deal with it. Ras, I think it's kind of ironic that you have a quote from a priest in your sig though.
The problem in Ireland however is that they do interfere. For example almost 90% of schools in Ireland are Catholic schools and only 0.3% are multidenominational. Furthermore all the teaching courses in Ireland require religious instruction which involves swearing to uphold a Catholic (or Protestant) ethos in schooling despite the fact that the vast majority of teachers would prefer no religious interference. Were I to become a teacher I would have to train outside of Ireland. Furthermore we have the systematic rape of children around the world. What irks me is that they do these things and then claim me as a member they use me in their statistics when they plead to the state. This leads to incredible absurdities, the population is supposedly 87% Catholic but less than 73% believe in a God, how is that possible? One shouldn't discount someone due to their religion. Newton believed in God, does that mean that differentiation is wrong?
I wouldn't doubt it if other religions do the same thing, but yeah, it really does make you question the stats given regarding religious populations. I'm probably still on the books at my childhood Methodist church despite never having gone back since I was about 17.
That sounds absurd. There's no separation of church and state at all then? No, I agree, just making an observation.
Excommunication doesn't involve leaving the Church, it merely means that you are undergoing penance. From wiki "Excommunicated Catholics are still Catholics and remain bound by obligations such as attending Mass, even though they are barred from receiving the Eucharist and from taking an active part in the liturgy (reading, bringing the offerings, etc.)." Also I wonder what one has to do to be excommunicated given that there is no will to excommunicate those involved in systematic child abuse. I suppose using a communion wafer for something other than intended is much more heinous than raping children.
Unfortunately I can't see any of that changing soon. AFAIK the 87% catholic stat is drawn from the census. The problem is that many people treat is as a social group rather than a religion. The fact that the census also only offers major religious groups and atheists rather than allowing for a spiritual or agnostic grouping doesn't help.
There supposedly is. It is written in our constitution and is law. However, the Catholic Church has for historical reasons control over most schools and many hospitals and has huge influence in the area. Such a state of affairs has been allowed to persist. The control of schools is absurd, a school may be officially run by the Church (or some religious order) but the teachers are paid by the State and the curriculum is determined by the state. This leads many to say "oh well it is only in name that they are run by the Church" but I don't see why it should even be in name. The reason why a non-religious teacher course has not been set up is not due to any legal restrictions but due to the fact that according to the government 'no one has complained yet' (somewhat untrue). It is all essentially a hangover from when the Church had a huge amount of sway but it still insidiously permeates the system. It is difficult to elucidate fully.
I know, it is primarily an identity thing. Catholicism and Irishness are intertwined in many peoples minds. There are many people who would say "I don't believe in God" and yet would describe themselves as Catholic. It is to differentiate from Protestants who are considered as English. The question is how to sever that association.
Sparation of church and state is a difficult one. The position of the catholic church was entrenched long before the foundation of the state. In theory anyone can set up a school, of any denomination and receive money from the state. The state itself does not run schools but keeps tight control of curricula and standards. The problem is that in most areas the catholic church already has schools set up that are well attended. Allowing them to claim that parents are happy with denominational education and do not want multifaith schools, the reality is more complex in many areas their may be sufficient numbers of students for multiple schools yet still no choice in denomination parents send their kids to catholic schools because they haven't other options EDIT Sorry! Saw Rkvs post after mine had gone up and I basically say the exact same thing...
Get more people to be honest on the census. But seriously it will be difficult, how many people if pre-communion and confirmation classes were not covered in school would bother? Things like that help to embed the idea that Catholicism is the norm.
Interesting. Thank you for the info. I would be upset if that was the case here, good thing for now it's not. (until they start trying to teach creationism in classrooms, that is... luckily they haven't tried yet in Wisconsin)
Like many adults, they out grow 8th grade menatlity, Santi clause, and the tooth fary. And like religion, most do grow out of it, and become intelligent people. But there are those who live in the past and are simple minded. Cognitive investigations and functions must be developed by 12 years old. This is the most criticl time of brain development. Some are retarded in cognitive function (to the 8th grad level), by stuff like religion. Religion does not use more complex brain functions, and if the brain is not developed into early adulthood. You can expect a person with religious mentality to be retarded in many cognitive functions. Hecne, the lack of what neuropsychologist call "executive functions". This is the stuff that religious people lack.
