Obama Administration Spending Recklessly

Discussion in 'Budget & Taxes' started by onalandline, May 13, 2014.

  1. onalandline

    onalandline Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2008
    Messages:
    9,976
    Likes Received:
    132
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Much of Washington is a disgrace.
     
  2. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2008
    Messages:
    19,980
    Likes Received:
    1,177
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Don't you think that Washington is nothing more than a direct reflection of our society today? People spend all their time pointing fingers at the left and right members of Congress and the president, when in fact, ALL of them respond exactly how their constituents demand. Sure 99% of them are pandering for votes in everything they do, since few of them are ever voted out of office, it's obvious they are performing like their voters demand. If you wish to see Washington change and improve, you must first figure out how to change and improve Americans. And IMO this won't happen and we are stuck in this wasted abyss of nothingness...
     
  3. angryamericanman

    angryamericanman New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2014
    Messages:
    184
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Not BS.

    If I make 1 million a year, 20 times the National median wage its far less difficult for me to pay 39.5% Fed tax, which I wouldn't as its only on dollars over 400,000.

    My million would have came from employees who did the real work...

    time to stop defending the rich, who careless about their workers.
     
  4. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2008
    Messages:
    19,980
    Likes Received:
    1,177
    Trophy Points:
    113
    IMO you are out of touch with reality. There is a place in the economy for everyone, and how each person goes about this is 100% their decision. Some work, some don't work, some earn low pay, some earn higher pay, some are business owners, some are investors, etc. It is idiocy to believe that those who fare better somehow do it at the expense of others. BTW; in bold above, if a business cannot maintain workers then it will cease to exist...it is ludicrous to believe any reputable employer does not care very much about it's workforce...
     
  5. angryamericanman

    angryamericanman New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2014
    Messages:
    184
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Yet Dem's and not Reagan was responsible for a 270% increase to our Nation Debt during the Reagan years, right?....hypocrite they name is Republican...
     
  6. angryamericanman

    angryamericanman New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2014
    Messages:
    184
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    to many unknown variables.

    I worked for a company years ago that had a set monthly profit they wanted to achieve. Once it was met, profit sharing checks were cut to each employee based on the hours the employee worked. The company prospered but wasn't greedy.

    Today most companies will NOT share but treat their workers, who by the way makes the money for the companies, like poop. They worry only about the biggest possible profit, morals and ethics be damned.

    In our nations beginning, profit and profit alone wasn't enough to get a Charter granted to do business. One needed to prove they provided a service or good that benefitted their community or chartership was denied. Profit was and should be today, a after thought, very important but a after thought just the same.

    To think the right claims to be Conservative yet puts profit as the only cause of a business existing.
     
  7. angryamericanman

    angryamericanman New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2014
    Messages:
    184
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    sorry@honestharry. The right have whined about taxes for decades. Taxes on the National level are not too high. 15% average for Americans and 12% average for the rich is not too high.
     
  8. angryamericanman

    angryamericanman New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2014
    Messages:
    184
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    of us 2, I am the one I reality. You talk theories which work great on paper but not in real life.

    take Walmart for example, its been said for them to pay 12 a hr would be only 1.1% increase of prices or decrease of profits which is minimal when looking at the massive profits they make.
     
  9. onalandline

    onalandline Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2008
    Messages:
    9,976
    Likes Received:
    132
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Too many folks only worried about themselves.
     
  10. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2008
    Messages:
    19,980
    Likes Received:
    1,177
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You haven't done your research...look at all the budget resolutions for the past few decades and see that BOTH parties supported one budget after another with deficit spending...talking politics is a waste of time...
     
  11. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2008
    Messages:
    19,980
    Likes Received:
    1,177
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Again, you are much to politically biased!

    So you believe only the conservatives care about profits?

    This is not 1776, things have changed. Maybe you haven't noticed in all the retail stores where in 1776 you only had one soap, or one suit, or one coffee and today there are 100 competing brands on every item...AND...they are competing for profits in order to grow and innovate and pay back investors. 80 million Americans in some form or fashion hold public stock...do you believe most of them don't care about profits, don't care about share prices increasing?

    Every modern day large corporation cares very much about their workers and does all they can do within the limits of the business model...
     
  12. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2008
    Messages:
    19,980
    Likes Received:
    1,177
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Walmart already pays on average $10/hour so paying $12/hour does not solve a single issue except for political BS. And you ignore the millions other small local stores who compete with Walmart for workers so if Walmart increases wages so does everyone else...your local grocery store, hardware store, gas station, coffee shop, etc. All you do is create unnecessary inflation and a higher cost of doing business in the USA. You cannot get something for nothing!

    If people wish to earn more, then why can't people take charge of their lives, avoid crime, avoid alcohol and drugs and tobacco, work hard, seek promotion, obtain more education and skills?

    - - - Updated - - -

    So you agree Congress and presidents are basically a reflection of the voters? If we're going to fix anything soon then we must first start with ourselves...
     
  13. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    150,844
    Likes Received:
    63,176
    Trophy Points:
    113
    how much money do you suggest Republicans would take out of the economy if they were in charge?
     
  14. angryamericanman

    angryamericanman New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2014
    Messages:
    184
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    on average is a bad way of gagueing wages. average includes full timers, which are fewer in Walmart, it also includes management.

    most employees make less than 9 a hr. which in 2014 is pathetic given the earnings they produce.

    http://www.salon.com/2013/11/19/wal...loyee_14_89_just_by_not_buying_its_own_stock/

    as far as small local stores, they hate walmarts as they crowd them out. Walmart isn't good for any local economy. low wages and unfair competition, the Walmart way.
     
  15. angryamericanman

    angryamericanman New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2014
    Messages:
    184
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    things have changed since 1776, thus the need for social programs and universal healthcare, 2 areas righties rally against.

    as far as business changing since 1776, irrelevant. the basic tenants still hold true. profit is needed but a after thought. community needs and stakeholders need looked after. a stakeholder is more then just stockholders.
     
  16. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2013
    Messages:
    27,769
    Likes Received:
    4,921
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Try to point out a single year where the United States was not in debt.
     
  17. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2013
    Messages:
    27,769
    Likes Received:
    4,921
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The second part of your statement is true. Unfortunatly most business models require maximizing profits while minimizing expenses. In other words spend the absolute minimum possible on hourly employees. That includes wages and health care and things like manipulating hours worked to avoid overtime and having employees classified as part time rather than full time.

    This is one of the reasons why the country has thing like minimum wage laws and overtime laws, etc, etc.
     
  18. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2008
    Messages:
    19,980
    Likes Received:
    1,177
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I don't discuss politics...
     
  19. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2008
    Messages:
    19,980
    Likes Received:
    1,177
    Trophy Points:
    113
    When talking Walmart using average wage is just fine because most of their employees are earning lower wages.

    Being honest here, those Walmart employees earning less than $10/hour, do you actually believe they possess skills, experience and education which would pay them more elsewhere? If so...why do they continue to work at Walmart?

    In bold above is untrue. Within walking distance of Walmarts you can find another 20 small businesses who compete directly with Walmart. The closest one to me, in the same parking area, has a Home Depot, Office Depot, Napa auto parts, cell phone sales/service, tire/battery sales, and several food outlets...and except for the food outlets, all of them compete with Walmart but there they are within walking distance of Walmart...how can this be? Within another 2-3 miles of this Walmart is every imaginable small business and all of them are doing fine...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Whatever you wish to believe...I can't argue with you...
     
  20. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2008
    Messages:
    19,980
    Likes Received:
    1,177
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Who cares about the past? Do you wish to spend all of your time in the past? How about thinking about now and the future?

    National deficits can be $1 or $1 trillion. Having $500 billion to $1 trillion deficit spending year after year is BS. You are disingenuous if you do not believe the federal government can be reduced by 10%! Even 20%! At current spending levels this represents $400 billion to $800 billion per year that could be saved...which means we don't need deficit spending! We have deficit spending because politicians and voters are greedy and self-serving with no accountability to anyone...
     
  21. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2008
    Messages:
    19,980
    Likes Received:
    1,177
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I'm quite curious to know why you believe as a business that minimizing expenses and maximizing profits is not a good thing??

    A company does not set the wage scale...where do you get this stuff? A company must pay whatever is required to hire and maintain qualified employees...period. I'm a farmer and hire labor all the time and I don't set the labor prices! If I go to the labor hall and state I'm paying $8/hour no one will work for me. It might be $12/hour or $15/hour...I never know because it depends on who and how many are available when I need labor. If Company A pays $8/hour and manages to hire workers, then Company B advertises it is paying $10/hour, Company A will lose it's workers...this means Company A IS NOT setting the pay scales...
     
  22. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2013
    Messages:
    27,769
    Likes Received:
    4,921
    Trophy Points:
    113
    My post is in reaction to your assumption that any national debt is bad which is clearly not true anymore than saying any individual debt is bad. That said the national debt is now getting to the point where it could become a serious issue if steps are not taken to reduce debt as a percentage of GDP.

    Now as to your statement about reducing spending the problem is reaching agreement as to where spending can be reduced and/or where revenues can be increased. A few facts are clear. We, as a country spend more on healthcare per person than any other developed country with demonstrably worse results. We also spend as much on defense as the next ten countries combined. So obviously reduction in both areas is possible.

    On revenues. The Bush tax cuts reduced revenues by about 1.3 trillion per year and the benefits were debatable at best. The age where social security benefits could be raised which would save considerable amounts or the caps on income subject to SS tax could be raised.

    There are clearly many possible ways to solve our budget issues but it isn't going to happen with our gridlocked government.
     
  23. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2013
    Messages:
    27,769
    Likes Received:
    4,921
    Trophy Points:
    113
    My statement was a response to your rather silly statement that all companies care very much about the welfare of their employees and do everything they can to help their employees within the constraints of their business models.

    A simple search can find many cases where companies fail to follow labor laws because to do so would reduce profits. Typical examples are failures to pay overtime, discrimination in hiring or promoting, union busting, hiring illegal immigrants, etc.

    And by the way I am not sure your experience hiring temporary day labor really is much proof of anything. I was lead negotiator on two major labor agreements for a major company and I can guarantee you that the welfare of the employees was in no way a major concern.
     
  24. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2008
    Messages:
    19,980
    Likes Received:
    1,177
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I've never implied deficit spending and debt are bad?? My entire issue with Obama and others is that deficit spending and debt have become SOP.

    No one is going to reduce a penny of debt until deficit spending is stopped. According to Obama's budget forecasts, deficit spending continues for many more years. All the while debt will be increasing.

    Even without talking about healthcare and defense, the US government is bloated! At least 10% could be reduced in short order and this is $400 billion. But politicians are scared (*)(*)(*)(*)less to ask voters to accept 10% less government.

    Bush has been out of office for years now...instead of political finger-pointing which is useless, the tax codes we have today exist because Obama and Congress and Americans like them. If they were so horrible then Obama could have changed them weeks into office.

    It's not a gridlocked government? It's greedy and self-serving Americans making demands of their government...
     
  25. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2008
    Messages:
    19,980
    Likes Received:
    1,177
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I 100% agree with your first statement above.

    Who cares if companies violate laws? If they do then penalize them...this is what laws are for. If you don't enforce your laws then don't blame those who violate the laws.

    Again, a business cannot function without employees. It cannot function with angry disgruntled employees. A business must pay the going rate to hire employees who will help the company realize it's goals. Other than consumers, employees are the most valuable asset of a company...no employees no company!

    BTW; when a union is involved in negotiations, and DEMANDS are placed upon the business, this immediately presents a hostile situation. I suggest companies who must deal with this have no use for the unions but continue to value the workers...
     

Share This Page