Obviously sound can travel through space; Voyager 1 has received interstellar sounds

Discussion in 'Science' started by nicewarlock, Dec 25, 2013.

  1. jay runner

    jay runner Banned

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    A 16 lb. shot put in trajectory displays much more particle behavior than wave behavior, but there is infinitesimal wave behavior present.

    A photon displays much more wave behavior than particle behavior, but infinitesimal particle behavior is present.

    Matter and energy are equivalent.
     
  2. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Sure.

    However, there is a difference between your examples and the pressure waves we call sound.

    Sound is the vibration of the medium - whereas, a photon is a unit that is passing through a medium.

    That's a big difference.
     
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  3. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    They may help explain dark energy which certainly fills space...
     
  4. cerberus

    cerberus Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What exactly did I write that makes you think I'm fearful? If I know that, I'll probably be able to answer your question.
     
  5. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The only problem with that is the lack of interaction with all properties other than Gravity. Sound does not require matter to propagate any more than light does. Both are waves of energy and only the observer is required to confirm existence. Sound (and light) are simply there regardless and we just need to listen or see.
     
  6. primate

    primate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That's incorrect. Sound requires a medium to propagate. Sound is not a particle capable of traversing a vacuum.
     
  7. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If you say so....strange though how our Radio telescopes pick up the sounds of objects billions of miles away just as our optical telescopes see their light. I wonder what mechanism makes one so much faster...I guess air and dark matter must be thicker for sound than light.
     
  8. primate

    primate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Radio is a generic term for EM. They are a type of electromagnetic radiation with wavelengths in the electromagnetic spectrum longer than infrared light. Radio waves have frequencies as high as 300 GHz to as low as 3 kHz, though some definitions describe waves above 1 or 3 GHz as microwaves, or include waves of any lower frequency.

    Photons are particles which transmit light. In other words, light is carried over space by photons. Photon is an elementary particle that is its own antiparticle. In quantum mechanics each photon has a characteristic quantum of energy.

    Sound is transmitted through gases, plasma, and liquids as longitudinal waves, also called compression waves. It requires a medium to propagate. It is not a form of EM nor an elementary particle. Since there is no water or air in space then there can be no sound. I'm not certain sound can propagate thru plasma unless it starts and continues in it. Perhaps one of the physicists on the forum can answer that.

    Pardon the elementary definitions but it seems necessary to do so to have a conversation.
     
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  9. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Then one wonders how tribal societies did not implode? After all, humanity lived in such societies of sharing and cooperation for much longer than we have lived under civilization. So, something like communism indeed worked, and it must have been natural, or at least it is what provided for survival. But of course these tribal societies were socially conditioned over a long period of time, as we have been conditioned to be as we are today. I believe it is all in the conditioning. Plus this primitive communism of tribal societies obviously worked. And worked for a very long time. Of course if you or I had been injected into such a society, they would have killed us for our selfishness, putting oneself above the tribe.
     
  10. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    No matter if anyone was listening or not, did the Big Bang create sound? We know it emitted light and other radiation but how about sound? If there was sound at the BB why aren't we detecting this sound today? Perhaps sound is absorbed in dark energy? Maybe 'sound' is only a human/animal trait...
     
  11. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No one will ever know if it made a sound and no one will see its light or explosion.

    Actually, never say never...who knowns what Webb will do,
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2017
  12. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Assuming the BB was an explosion/implosion, the rapid expansion that followed, should have created sound waves, as long as the pressure wave was within a medium, it would be making a sound. Once it got into the vacuum of space, assuming a pure vacuum, and no medium exists, the sound waves would stop I suppose. The other question might be 'who' or 'what' can hear which sounds? The human ear functions within a sound frequency range which works fine for our every day needs, however, we don't know if or how 'others' will be able to hear? It seems to me counter-intuitive to not have some types of sound in the Universe...especially if there is dark matter/energy filling space...
     
  13. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The Big Bang CREATED space, if anything existed before that it is impossible to know, let alone hear or see. We cannot even see through the dark age fog to note first stars.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2017
  14. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Well...space must have existed prior to the BB in order to have room for the expansion. We don't know what was in that space but there must have been room for our Universe to take the space we need...
     
  15. primate

    primate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Space-time was created as the universe expanded. The universe did not expand into space.
     
  16. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Guess you don't see any validity in the multiverse theory?
     
  17. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I don't think you quite understand a few things. As far as we can tell there was literally NOTHING before the Big Bang...if by chance there was, it is not something of this dimension. There are hypothesis concerning possibility but no way to test them as of yet in order to get to theory. What we do understand at this point revolves around what occurred AFTER the BB and we do understand that space is expanding continuously at this point and may very well do so until our Universe winks out into nothing again. There is no such thing or need for "Room" in nothingness as nothing does not require it to exist.
    Basically our "Universe" creates space while it expands rather than expand into it.
     
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  18. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    If there were other big bangs or universes, they would be outside of our space-time universe.

    Physics on that level gets really weird.

    I'm not claiming I understand this. But, it's certainly fun to read about.
     
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  19. primate

    primate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That doesn't change what I said even if we arose as a quantum fluctuation in another universe. Our universe didn't expand into something but something was created as it expanded.
     
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  20. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Well...it's kind of difficult to understand something that none of us knows about.
    There is no 'we' in this subject...many people have varying theories about pre-BB.
    Your last comment is interesting since it seems to be spoken with validation yet no validation exists?
     
  21. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    If 'time' as we know it is self-contained within our Universe, then can we guess 'time' also exists in other universes...assuming the multiverse theory?

    Since we don't know the answer, why can't there be another unit of mass and time that encompasses a few hundred billion universes? Like a Master-Verse?

    It's all weird to me...I just enjoy thinking about it...
     
  22. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    How can science know something that we simply do not know? We are clueless to what lies outside of our known Universe...right?
     
  23. primate

    primate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The Big Bang is a theory and does have some holes but it fits better than anything else we have. The theory fits the facts esp fractions of a second after the primordial event started.

    The statement that space-time began with the Big Bang is very well accepted as is the universe created itself as it expanded. Now if you want to espouse another theory such as colliding branes then the game changes.

    It may be better to think of probabilities. As those approach 1 then you can settle in on that being more factual. By definition there is nothing outside our universe. That does not contradict the statement I made earlier. A quantum fluctuation in our universe creating another universe means that new universe is outside ours.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2017
  24. PatriotNews

    PatriotNews Well-Known Member

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    I agree with @Ronstar which rarely happens.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2017
  25. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it's great to think about. But ...

    Here's a thought - there are those who are trying to figure out whether there could be ways to detect the existence of another universe that somehow touches or overlaps our own, but perhaps in another dimension or whatever. One could imagine being inside a soap bubble in a bathtub, with the edges of the "universe" being impacted by others. Of course that analogy is all wrong, but ...

    Perhaps there will come a time when some cool theoretical physicist figures out something that science could look for.
     

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