On poverty

I'm not saying minimum wage won't help, but you are delusional if you believe that is the solution to the poverty problem.

People are also delusional if they believe more university degrees will be the major solution.

(thread here: percent of Americans who actually have a college degree )

 

I agree that low wages depend on labour supply and Immigration has been a factor. Indeed I have argued elsewhere that successive governments over here have used immigration to subsidise tax. Basically each year you invite a large number of young fit immigrants who pay tax but make little claim on the system. Then after a few years they have children and start costing tax money, so you invite another lot to come.

But there is another problem over here and that is the number of young people who are unwilling to take jobs they don't enjoy. There is a desperate shortage of hands on trades (Plasterers, bricklayers, painters etc) even though these trades pay 3 to 4 times the minimum wage.
Oh, and thanks for the link, I'll have a look.

 

Agreed. If the minimum wage in America is anything like the UK, then those who suffer poverty (Young families) need to earn far more than its desultory offer.

 

I am a socialist at heart, but I don't think the minimum wage getting ever higher is the answer. It is to broad a brush stroke, penalising small businesses (And especially start ups) that barely survive on local part timers etc. Alongside highly profitable large companies publishing massive profits.
Long term if minimum wages get high enough some jobs will disappear.
There is a myth among many non business owners that the price you can charge is dependent on your competition, but its not. There is very much a price the public is willing to pay for any given item.

 

You can't bat 1000. That is not an issue for government. I have mistakenly hired a few alcoholics over the years. While they were effective when sober, some would fail after going out to drink their lunch. I had to pick one up at the county jail one evening. These people need to find help and deal with their problems. As I said earlier, people who cannot work should receive a government stipend, those who can should. I guess I could add that who are ineffective employees because of personal behavior need to change their behavior themselves.

 

I do know that the min wage being too low doesn't help the poverty problem

but you're right, we have to bring good jobs back to the usa too, but will that happen, doubtful, the corps won't do this unless forced too

 

Can I just clarify, would you count an alcoholic (Of the type you describe) as needing government benefits?
I've had a few who were not alcoholics but just didn't have the intelligence to do almost any sort of job. The ones who leave the tap running and the lights on when they go home.

 

if you can stop inflation, then the min wage would not need increased, but as is, the min wage has not kept up with inflation

 

when we hired our roofers, they drank beer all day, did great work though, never got plastered, so I had no complaints, though it did concern me at first I admit

of course had there been any issues, I would have blamed it on the alcohol, while if the same thing had happened without alcohol, it would just be a mistake they needed to fix

 

No, as I said I don't think the minimum wage is the solution at all. Wages used to be driven by supply and demand, but demand for workers is constantly falling due to automation. This results in more people than jobs. At the moment that gap has been filled by the growing number of service industries, but these only exist because of low wages. The maximum price someone will play for an hour in a soft play centre is not driven by the wages of the staff. So increased minimum wage means higher charges, means fewer customers, means redundancies.

Instead I think we need to tackle the actual problem and that automation means money money going to fewer people and taxation needs to reflect this.
Theoretically, at some point machines will do everything and people will be redundant en-mass. Then how do we share out the money.

 

the min wage is just the minimum one could be paid, but sadly many will pay employees the least they can as you said, thus the importance of raising the min wage

I 100% agree with the rest, excessive foreign outsourcing, excessive foreign imports, automation and AI are gonna make for less jobs and that will lead to socialism

I think eventually instead of 0% loans to the corps, the fed will issue the stimulus to Americans, just printing money (they are already buying stocks)

 

This.

We're not Europe or Japan, we're closer to Brazil. It doesn't make sense to compare the US to relatively homogenous countries that share the same cultural values.

 

Recent history has taught us that this is in no way true. Otherwise both China and Iraq would be Jeffersonian democracies now.

 

we should have more assistive housing for these types of folks, I agree - the rules would have to be no drugs in this environments, but offer inpatient alcohol and drug treatment

 

I don't know know what experts you think predicted democracies in those places, but is your argument supposed to be that experts haven't always been right, so your opinion is as good as that of the experts?

 

I would argue that the track record of "experts" over the last 30 years has been worse than a random result. Maybe at one time experts were smart, but now they're dumb; I don't know. But I can no longer trust experts.

If you don't "know" who predicted that by opening up our economy to China they would become a modern democratic state than I would say no wonder you trust experts because you have not be listening to them and don't know what they claim.

 

I would argue that closing up trade from China is far more complex than this, that to stop all goods from China would be to cut all trade routes into the U.S isolating the States and effecting its economy and democracy.
However I have never seen any economist claiming a direct link between trade with China and democracy in America, perhaps you could link me some.

 

No, their problem is beyond the role of government. They can fix it themselves. Millions have done so. They need to fix it. I was referring to people who can't work through no fault of their own.

Those people need to have jobs that don't require turning out the lights.

 

Even when they endanger others? I dont think so.
I pay taxes so people like that arnt forced into situations that do far more harm then good.

People getting free money from the government bother me less then people trying to do things they arnt qualified for just so they look busy. It produces inferior products, and results.

Ill take a qualified alcoholic over someone who's just plain incompetent, especially after years of education.

 

The issue isn't that trading with China hurts American democracy. It is China's desire to add the U.S. to its sphere of power that hurts it. There are things that can we can do to hurt China economically and thereby reduce its abilities to achieve its political goals. The tariffs were a good example. We added the tariffs. That caused China to devalue its currency. The result was that consumer prices were not meaningfully impacted but China's wealth certainly was.

I see some value in ending an economic relationship with China but it certainly isn't the only way. As long as we retaliate to China's actions, things can be kept in check. As an example of that China requires every U.S. company operating in China to have majority ownership of the Chinese operation held by a Chinese company. We should do the same thing here with Chinese interests. That would likely get the Chinese law rescinded. The Chinese don't play as fairly as we do. But we must meet those unfair practices with unfair practices of our own.

If we want to keep our economic hegemony on the planet and our ownership of the planet's reserve currency, we need to act accordingly.

 

Don't confuse any of this with a government responsibility. If they endanger others they should be fired. If their work is unsatisfactory they should be replaced with some who can do satisfactory work. There is no need for you to keep either a poor performer or an alcoholic. Government accepts these things for some odd reason but there is no need to let employees hurt your business in the private sector.

 

I think you find very many addicts cannot cure themselves anymore than a cancer sufferer can cure themselves.

 

There are very few people who genuinely don't wish to improve there lot, those accusing the unemployed of being feckless would do well to remember this.

 

It is government responsibility, cause they are citizens and so are their children. So either way its gonna cost..them getting a free check in the mail cost less then the alternative.

 

And what should then happen to these people?