Part 38 of Post Your Tough Questions Regarding Christianity

I'm not here to prove or disprove the existence or nature of God, but if was looking for the answers to those questions I wouldn't seek them second-hand.

But that's just me...

 

Indeed. And all written "holy books" are second hand at the very best. Any all powerful entity would have no such limitation and would have you know whatever he/she/it/they intend you to know.

 

At least you got a response. When I challenged him about God's Will he ran away.

Unbeknownst to Infinitely Learned Friend, the man pictured in my avatar put an end to that debate in the early 14th Century when he rekt the ancient "rationalism" that supposedly constrained God, Man and Nature and put "everything in its own place".

Call me crazy, but I'm inclined to agree with William of Ockham - an omnipotent God can do whatever the hell He wants.

 

Not quite gift. Please refer to article below.

The evolution of a scientific theory

A scientific theory is not the end result of the scientific method; theories can be proven or rejected, just like hypotheses. Theories can be improved or modified as more information is gathered so that the accuracy of the prediction becomes greater over time. Click on link below to get the whole enchilada.

https://www.livescience.com/21491-w...y of the prediction becomes greater over time.

So based on what is presented, the Theory of Evolution has not been entirely proven, there are many people who reject the notion still to this day. The debate lingers on. Nobody has put a rubber stamp on the ludicrous notion that man has irrefutably evolved from apes, that man is a member of the great ape family. Nobody has yet found that common ancestor...that "missing link" if you will.

And nobody ever will because it doesn't exist. If it did exist well the remains can never be recovered to perform a DNA evaluation. So what are we left with? Just another theory that can't be conclusively proven, that many reject.

 

Of course, that all-powerful entity would be free to choose to let you figure things out on your own, even at the risk of getting everything completely wrong.

Free Will has its risks.

Which is what scared the crap out of the Scholastics when Ockham & Co. asserted that God did whatever the hell He wanted to do. With all that power an unpredictable God is a dangerous God. No longer is everything nice and tidy and "in its own place". If He wants, God can be an inter-dimensional Godzilla rampaging through Time and Space.



"Run for your lives!!!"

 

From your source,

"For example, we have ample evidence of traits in populations becoming more or less common over time (evolution), so evolution is a fact but the overarching theories about evolution, the way that we think all of the facts go together might change as new observations of evolution are made," Tanner told Live Science.

 

WarRen needs to get up to date with Roman Catholic - Papal doctrine.

 

Absolutely true.

Yes. And we aren’t talking about free will to obey or disobey if people don’t know or believe there is any command, or misunderstand the command.

Yes. Ironically people created this image of God, who they say is in control over them, and wants this specific thing in this book we wrote in order for themselves to feel a sense of control.

 

Mitt - it is nit picking in an area that you don't understand .. but I understand very well .. so just go with what I said and get to some point in relation to what the difference between fact and "supposition" is - as related to that point...

 

Which speaks to the ludicrous "rationalist" conceit that Man has free will but God does not.

It's an illogical argument that cannot stand, and it was refuted 700 years ago.

But here we are, seven centuries later, and literalists are still laboring under the delusion that they can shackle God and Nature and Science to their book and the parables they don't understand.

The Book of Genesis is a great story about Man's emergence from Nature and Innocence, but it doesn't open with "In the beginning I created the heavens and the earth."

 

Yes indeed Hillman what you are presenting came from the source I presented on the post I made to gift, however in that last post to gift I was specifically referring to the theory that man evolved from apes. That theory hasn't been proven. So it is not factual that mankind evolved from apes. It is still an unproven theory. There is no unanimous agreement to the notion (theory). They are still looking for that common ancestor...that "missing link" if you will.

They are never ever going to find that missing link if there ever was one in the first place...because if there ever was one its remains will never be recovered...how could it be found when everything has withered away from decay.

But lastly before I go, let me present you with a fact, then a theory.

The surface of the sun is hot. Without a doubt, the surface of the sun is indeed hot and so it's a fact. Nobody needs to test that, we all know for a fact that statement is true, and so it is not a theory. Well maybe to some it's a theory because they are not intellectually honest.

Man evolved from apes. Without a doubt, man evolved from apes is indeed debatable and so it's a theory. We are still testing that, we all know for a fact that statement is debatable, and so it is not a fact. Well maybe to some it's a fact because they are not intellectually honest.

We Read in Scripture:

20 Then God said, “Let the waters swarm with fish and other life. Let the skies be filled with birds of every kind.” 21 So God created great sea creatures and every living thing that scurries and swarms in the water, and every sort of bird—each producing offspring of the same kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 Then God blessed them, saying, “Be fruitful and multiply. Let the fish fill the seas, and let the birds multiply on the earth.”

23 And evening passed and morning came, marking the fifth day.

24 Then God said, “Let the earth produce every sort of animal, each producing offspring of the same kind—livestock, small animals that scurry along the ground, and wild animals.” And that is what happened. 25 God made all sorts of wild animals, livestock, and small animals, each able to produce offspring of the same kind. And God saw that it was good.

26 Then God said, “Let us make human beings in our image, to be like us. They will reign over the fish in the sea, the birds in the sky, the livestock, all the wild animals on the earth, and the small animals that scurry along the ground.”

27 So God created human beings in his own image.
In the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.

28 Then God blessed them and said, “Be fruitful and multiply. Fill the earth and govern it. Reign over the fish in the sea, the birds in the sky, and all the animals that scurry along the ground.”

29 Then God said, “Look! I have given you every seed-bearing plant throughout the earth and all the fruit trees for your food. 30 And I have given every green plant as food for all the wild animals, the birds in the sky, and the small animals that scurry along the ground—everything that has life.” And that is what happened.

31 Then God looked over all he had made, and he saw that it was very good! And evening passed and morning came, marking the sixth day. Genesis 1:20-31 NLT

 

No, man is a Great Ape that is a fact, you really need to learn about these things.

Humans are classified in the sub-group of primates known as the Great Apes.

Humans are primates, but the primates that we most closely resemble are the apes. We are therefore classified along with all other apes in a primate sub-group known as the hominoids (Superfamily Hominoidea).

This ape group can be further subdivided into the Great Apes and Lesser Apes. Humans have bodies that are genetically and structurally very similar to those of the Great Apes and so we are classified in the Great Apes sub-group which is also known as the hominids (Family Hominidae).

https://australian.museum/learn/sci...dies that are,the hominids (Family Hominidae).

 

Australopithecus anamensis A skull nearly 4 million years found in Ethiopia.
Dinosaur fossils 200 - 300 million years old are found in museums all over the world.
the soft bodies of 95-million-year-old octopuses found preserved in Lebanese rocks.

Under the right geological conditions things can be preserved for 'eternity, .

 

Meet your simian cousin, Mitt - he shares 98.7% of your DNA:



God's Free Will...

 

This one is a little closer down the time scale



Mutations happen

 

Sorry but you are wrong. If that were true then the Bible would still be in its original language.

 

Good grief Mitt - you have been show on a number of occasions how the Bible has been changed, edited, deletions, additions, interpolations.. heck . whole books have been removed .. and some never should have made it .. some turned out to be Pseudepigrapha

Surely you are not claiming that the text hasn't changed - nor deflecting by trying to claim that it has not changed significantly - or claiming God was the author of the changes ..

 

You don't see it but we Christians certainly see it. Jeremiah 31:31 was the prophesy of the new covenant to come. The new covenant to come was The Messiah which of course is Our Lord Savior Jesus Christ, the one who mediates the new covenant between God and people.

All the following verses from Scripture below says it all about this new covenant, the old one is gone and obsolete. The Messiah Our Lord Savior Jesus Christ brings the new covenant into the world for mankind.

We Read in Scripture:

31 “The day is coming,” says the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and Judah. Jeremiah 31:31 NLT

Our Lord Savior Jesus Christ said,

28 "for this is my blood, which confirms the covenant between God and his people. It is poured out as a sacrifice to forgive the sins of many." Matthew 26:28 NLT

20 And in the same way He took the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup, which is poured out for you, is the new covenant in My blood." Luke 22:20 NAS

24 And he said to them, "This is my blood, which confirms the covenant between God and his people. It is poured out as a sacrifice for many." Mark 14:24 NLT

Jeremiah 31:31 was fulfilled in Matthew 26:28, Luke 22:20 & Mark 14:24.

And as I said in my post above It is also referenced in 1 Cor. 11:25, 2 Cor. 3:6, Heb. 8:8, 9:15 and 12:24.

We Read in Scripture:

Our Lord Savior Jesus Christ said,

25 In the same way, he took the cup of wine after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant between God and his people—an agreement confirmed with my blood. Do this in remembrance of me as often as you drink it.” 1 Corinthians 11:25 NLT

6 He has enabled us to be ministers of his new covenant. This is a covenant not of written laws, but of the Spirit. The old written covenant ends in death; but under the new covenant, the Spirit gives life. 2 Corinthians 3:6 NLT

8 But when God found fault with the people, he said: “The day is coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and Judah. Hebrews 8:8 NLT

15 That is why he is the one who mediates a new covenant between God and people, so that all who are called can receive the eternal inheritance God has promised them. For Christ died to set them free from the penalty of the sins they had committed under that first covenant. Hebrews 9:15 NLT

24 You have come to Jesus, the one who mediates the new covenant between God and people, and to the sprinkled blood, which speaks of forgiveness instead of crying out for vengeance like the blood of Abel. Hebrews 12:24

The problem is actually you not interpreting Scripture correctly.

Yes, Isaiah 9:2-7 runs alongside Isaiah 11:1-5 and yes they do refer to Our Lord Savior Jesus Christ.

Because apparently you missed it, in other words it has been fulfilled. The fulfillment is in Acts 13:47-49.

The prophesy is that The Messiah would come for all nations and bring salvation to the farthest corners of the earth to all Gentiles.

We Read in Scripture:

10 In that day the heir to David’s throne will be a banner of salvation to all the world. The nations will rally to him, and the land where he lives will be a glorious place. Isaiah 11:10 NLT

47 For the Lord gave us this command when he said, ‘I have made you a light to the Gentiles, to bring salvation to the farthest corners of the earth.’ 48 When the Gentiles heard this, they were very glad and thanked the Lord for his message; and all who were chosen for eternal life became believers. So the Lord’s message spread throughout that region. Acts 13:47-49 NLT

No actually it's what you don't want it to be but sorry it is what it is...it's prophesy as clear as daylight rises in the East!

 

Let me clarify myself. Yes, the text has been changed but not the original messages/meanings is what I really meant to say...sorry for my bad.

 

The Tanakh was written by the Jews, for the Jews. Show me a reference to Jesus in the OT. Not just your interpretation. Where is Jesus named. He isn't. It's simply open to interpretation.

. The Messiah was the Jewish Messiah yet to come. If you believe that sort of thing.

.

But you don't KNOW the original message/meanings. They are only your christian interpretations. I prefer the interpretation of the people to whom the Tanakh was supposedly given - Israel.The mainstay of the Bible was the Roman Catholic Church for nearly 2000 years. In the light of modern science and knowledge it is having to adapt its teachings. Presumably you know better than the scholars of the Roman Church. The early church had a mixture of doctrines - often opposing each other. It took 330 years just to agree the Divinity of Jesus - by a majority decision. It took another 30 years to agree on a Trinity as today. (Even now all do not agree}. Paul used Hebrew teaching, Greek philosophy and adapted judaistic. ritual to reach the Greeks. The 'Jerusalem' church faded away and Pauls 'church' took over. A good start for Christianity

 

You are simply making things up as you go along. Taking text after text out of context. Tell me where Jesus is named in the OT.

Isaiah is referring to the Jewish Messiah. The nations certainly didn't rise to the coming of Jesus and The land where he lived' was a violent land which was lost to the Jews. The Jewish Messiah is expected to lead his people to victory and all the nations will join them in the worship of Jahweh.

That's as clear as daylight rises in the East. to anyone understanding the Tanakh.

 

Actually, there have been errors in translation - most notably those made by Jerome - that significantly changed the meaning of the words and message in the original text.

If you're going to get involved in exegesis, Mitt, you have to read more than Scripture....

 

One of the problems has always been that words in one language may not have its opposite in another. Then the nearest word is used and alters the whole meaning.

 

As I said in another section, Science is simply a Process or method in pursuing absolute truth. But many are afraid of science because in the end, it might mean the disproving of ones beliefs (especially when it comes to religious beliefs). Beliefs become a safe haven when it would be too difficult to endure otherwise.

 

The bottom line trev is that nobody can prove either way the Great Flood of Noah. So we are pretty much left with faith, whether it be belief or disbelief.
I'm all aboard with the crowd of belief. You obviously are on board with the crowd of disbelief. Now we should just leave it at that because nobody is going to convince anybody on the other side that their side is right. I have in the past read all your opinions/views on this subject matter and none of it convinced me that you were right I'm sure likewise you can say the same about me.

Some things in life is just unknowable. All intellectually honest people know that we humans do not have insight into 100% of all knowledge. So who really knows if there was a world wide catastrophic mountain swallowing flood?...answer...only Almighty God The Creator knows, after all He created the heavens and the earth and furthermore it was He who told us about this mountain swallowing flood in His Best Selling Book Of All-Time, the Holy Bible and by golly I believe Him.

We Read in Scripture:

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was formless and empty, and darkness covered the deep waters. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of the waters. Genesis 1:1-2 NLT

17 “Look! I am about to cover the earth with a flood that will destroy every living thing that breathes. Everything on earth will die. 18 But I will confirm my covenant with you. So enter the boat—you and your wife and your sons and their wives. 19 Bring a pair of every kind of animal—a male and a female—into the boat with you to keep them alive during the flood. 20 Pairs of every kind of bird, and every kind of animal, and every kind of small animal that scurries along the ground, will come to you to be kept alive. 21 And be sure to take on board enough food for your family and for all the animals.” 22 So Noah did everything exactly as God had commanded him. Genesis 6:17-24 NLT

17 For forty days the floodwaters grew deeper, covering the ground and lifting the boat high above the earth. 18 As the waters rose higher and higher above the ground, the boat floated safely on the surface. 19 Finally, the water covered even the highest mountains on the earth, 20 rising more than twenty-two feet above the highest peaks. 21 All the living things on earth died—birds, domestic animals, wild animals, small animals that scurry along the ground, and all the people. 22 Everything that breathed and lived on dry land died. 23 God wiped out every living thing on the earth—people, livestock, small animals that scurry along the ground, and the birds of the sky. All were destroyed. The only people who survived were Noah and those with him in the boat. 24 And the floodwaters covered the earth for 150 days. Genesis 7:17-24 NLT