Pastor of Tampa church ..; arrested, jailed

Discussion in 'Civil Liberties' started by btthegreat, Mar 30, 2020.

  1. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2017
    Messages:
    22,527
    Likes Received:
    2,213
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Yeah, it seems that churches aren't exempt, which I am on board with. Same thing here in Australia.

    You mean CAN'T spread the virus there?
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2020
    FreshAir likes this.
  2. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    95,530
    Likes Received:
    30,124
    Trophy Points:
    113
    yep, I caught that too, yep, I meant 'can't' :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2020
  3. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2017
    Messages:
    22,527
    Likes Received:
    2,213
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    On the contrary, I'm sure that many religious communities DO believe that the virus cannot be spread among them.
     
  4. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Messages:
    47,871
    Likes Received:
    28,192
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Oh, it's a slam-dunk. 9-Zip isn't out of the question.

    This is well settled law, though I suspect they would apply the Jacobson test rather than the Lemon test. At issue is the kind of emergency authority allowed by the Supreme Court under the 1905 decision in Jacobson v. Commonwealth of Massachusetts. It’s not enough to declare a constitutional right as overriding emergency decisions, the court ruled 115 years ago, but to determine that the state overstepped emergency powers to limit access to constitutional rights by using the least intrusive restriction necessary to satisfy a legitimate emergency state interest: - So two pongs, the second must be satisfied first.

    “Under the pressure of great dangers,” constitutional rights may be reasonably restricted “as the safety of the general public may demand.”
    That settled rule allows the state to restrict, for example, one’s right to peaceably assemble, to publicly worship, to travel, and even to leave one’s home.

    We accept these temporary measures because of the exigent circumstances of the emergency and the application of these restrictions in dealing with it. In a pandemic, we need to keep people separated as much as possible, and so churches are being shut down even though the right to freely express religious beliefs in public is among the first explicit rights protected in the Constitution.

    These measures will surely pass the Jacobson even with the application of strict scrutiny test that it was the least intrusive measure on which to serve the state’s interest while dealing with the pandemic.

    Now, having two officers take a lone paddle boarder into custody, putting him in close contact with two arresting officers, when he was initially hundreds of feet from anyone? That looks like it flunks the second prong.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2020
  5. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2017
    Messages:
    3,827
    Likes Received:
    821
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
  6. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2017
    Messages:
    22,527
    Likes Received:
    2,213
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I'm not sure if you believe that. I THINK you're a believer in God of some sort, if I correctly recall our previous discussions.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2020
  7. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2017
    Messages:
    3,827
    Likes Received:
    821
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    i believe that God has a great sense of karmitic justice.
     
  8. Diablo

    Diablo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2016
    Messages:
    2,121
    Likes Received:
    1,407
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    The god-squad no doubt prayed a lot, which should protect them, or so they wish.
     
  9. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2010
    Messages:
    32,910
    Likes Received:
    8,123
    Trophy Points:
    113
    So a State law can suspend constitutional rights?

    Sometimes open violation of unjust laws it's the only way to deal with unjust laws.

    There are always viruses. why don't you just suspend all public gatherings indefinitely because someone might get the flu and die.

    I think the pastor has a very sound Supreme Court case here, and I hope it gets there and I hope the State loses.

    The First Amendment cannot be suspended I don't care what the circumstances are
     
    ToddWB likes this.
  10. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2018
    Messages:
    13,849
    Likes Received:
    12,871
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Democrats run Tampa so not surprised, glad I left there for rural living, a hundred miles South.
     
  11. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2010
    Messages:
    32,910
    Likes Received:
    8,123
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I'm currently living in a rather Democratic **** city. Once I can get my new career going I'll move out of this place quit paying property taxes to these idiots.

    That being said I want anyone who violates the constitutional rights of my fellow citizens to pay the consequences. I don't care if the Democrats, I don't care if they go to some stupid megachurch. That is their right and it does not get suspended because of some Chinese flu.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2020
    ToddWB and FatBack like this.
  12. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2010
    Messages:
    32,910
    Likes Received:
    8,123
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I absolutely disagree on fundamental constitutional grounds. People have the right to assemble. The Constitution doesn't get suspended.


    nobody ever cares that they spread the flu. The death rates are about the same.
     
    ToddWB likes this.
  13. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2017
    Messages:
    22,527
    Likes Received:
    2,213
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Yeah, I agree. I think what I meant was that I agree that churches were included in the list, but to the extent that churches would respect it and decide not to meet voluntarily. Churches which didn't respect it are stupid, but they have the right to meet. Also, I wouldn't have a problem if the government named and shamed any irresponsible churches and recorded the number plates of any church attendees and placed certain restrictions on their drivers licenses after giving a clear warning that this is what would happen. I have no problem with any of that whatsoever.

    Isn't the fact that the flu has a vaccine and treatments and has been around for thousands of years slightly distinguish it from coronavirus?
     
  14. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2018
    Messages:
    13,849
    Likes Received:
    12,871
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
  15. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2017
    Messages:
    22,527
    Likes Received:
    2,213
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    What do you make of the indoor/outdoor distinction?
     
  16. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2010
    Messages:
    32,910
    Likes Received:
    8,123
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I don't think there's anything wrong with offering services online. Churches should be encouraged to do this.


    Well in terminology perhaps. The flu has a greater mortality rate although I suspect that's because a lot of cases of the flu go by on confirmed because people don't get tested for the flu.

    Also the coronavirus has been around for a long time. The strain of it no but the strain of flu we going to have next season is new, that's why I sometimes even if you get a flu shot you might still get the flu.
     
  17. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2018
    Messages:
    13,849
    Likes Received:
    12,871
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Very little if in very close proximity.
     
    ToddWB likes this.
  18. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2017
    Messages:
    22,527
    Likes Received:
    2,213
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Yeah, that's what I was thinking. The protests seemed to average about 1mm between each person. So a bit different to stadium seating as with Trump's rally.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2020
    ToddWB likes this.
  19. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2017
    Messages:
    22,527
    Likes Received:
    2,213
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Encouraged by who?

    Yeah, well the strain is the only thing which matters isn't it?
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2020
  20. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2010
    Messages:
    32,910
    Likes Received:
    8,123
    Trophy Points:
    113
    medical personnel.


    False, it's antibodies that matter. And we don't have antibodies for any of the coronavirus strains.

    Further you do understand antibodies built up to blend virus can work against another virus right? The vaccine against smallpox was developed by using a cowpox virus.
     
    ToddWB likes this.
  21. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2017
    Messages:
    22,527
    Likes Received:
    2,213
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Well I don't think that it would've taken the encouragement from medical professionals in order for churches to switch to online. They either would have decided to do either that,
    or go against the health order and meet physically, or else not meet at all, physically or online, which many of the churches with mainly old people would have had to do. Anyway, meeting online has SUCKED for the past few months! We return this Sunday thankfully.

    Well we DO for the flu obviously! So I'm not sure what you're arguing.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2020
  22. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2010
    Messages:
    32,910
    Likes Received:
    8,123
    Trophy Points:
    113
    well in all reality the only people that should quarantine are the people at high risk.


    I'm pointing out that the strain of the virus doesn't really matter if you don't have any antibodies to it.
     
    ToddWB likes this.
  23. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2017
    Messages:
    22,527
    Likes Received:
    2,213
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Sure, but isn't your point that there's not much distinction between the flu and coronavirus?
     
  24. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2018
    Messages:
    13,849
    Likes Received:
    12,871
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
  25. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2010
    Messages:
    32,910
    Likes Received:
    8,123
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Not at all. My point is the dearth numbers compared to infection rates show it's less deadly than the flu. It's more prolific but that's due to lack of antibodies.
     

Share This Page