Peace Talks - Will Israel Really Withdraw?

You ar etalking about religion and it taking the place of actual govenors. What does Islam have to do with the relatively secular PA and Abbas?

You aren't talking about either Islam of governance, and you have the two incomprehensibly warped in a manner that has NO bearing on the peace process.

 

No. I am talking about Islam. Islam wants to expunge Judaism from the Middle East and Israel giving up land will show weakness that will motivate Islam to take advantage of.

 

If you force soemoen to accept the results of war .... you get peace.

Israel is clearly not capable of doing that, and, with two Intifadas, they have clearly tried - as they have in Lebanon and against Hamas.

Or is the problem that Israel never uses violence, and only those dastardly Muslims use violence? Because they hate their children and want them to die fighting a vastly superior force for no particular reason?

Read Clausewitz. He will remove many of your illusions regarding the use of force and policy results (it is the later that matters - for you can very easily shoot yourself into a war that is rather difficult to get out of once started).

 

No, you are claiming that Islam is the 'government' of the Palestinians. You are in error. That simple.

 

The Palestinians are only a part of the Islamic picture. It's opposition to Israel is guided by Islam, but they are not the only Muslims so motivated by their desire to rid the map of Israel.

 

To force Hamas and Abbas to accept Israeli terms is to massacre them. They will not be otherwise convinced. Israel does not want to massacre Palestinians because it will destroy to peace process or make peace reprehensible, so Israel tries to negotiate.

 

Sadly, Israel has reached a point in its arrogance where only a military defeat can knock them off their high chair and bring them back to reality.

The last thing we want in our region is a war which might kill hunderds of thousands, even millions.

A war which Hamas ans other hardlined extremists continue to call for, but with Israels continious refusal for peace, even moderate Arab are starting to think the same.

Israel believes it is untouchable. It believes it has the strength to defeat all its enemies. Don't they they how fast Arab nations are growing? Don't they see that Arabs are getting richer and more educated?

America's support might not be enough to save Israel if the rest of the world is against it.

I hope Israelis will wake up before it is too late.

 

In other words, a military victory is not possible, and Israel SHOULD be negotiating. Instead, we have spent the last few years watching Bibi do everything, including use more force, routinely seal off the West Bank, continue the occupation, force the construction of new settlements greatly complicating the negotiating process, attack it Islamic neighbors, the UN, peace groups, and generally ingore the negotiations process to the point that he nearly destroyed Israel's relations with the US before FINALLY going to the negotiating table ...

Those negotiations? Yeah, Israel has been fully committed to that process under Bibi

 

A military victory is very possible with Israel. However, that is not necessarily the best solution. Israel wants peace and does not want to give the world reasons to hate it when the world has already hated it for no reason and for false information.

Israel is committed to peace. Bibi is just a realist who knows that the UN and Islam have no peace processes to offer that will lead to Israel existing in 50 years. Peace could happen today if Islam recognized Israel's right to exist. However, the peace that is offered doesn't mean lack of war with Israel. It means lack of Israel.

 

Obviously Israel is not going to get any military victory as no such thing exists in this situation. If Israel wants peace then they are going about it the wrong way. Stealing peoples land and continuing to build on it will not get them any peace, that would be clear to a child.

Israel has been caught lying so many times over the years that people have come not to trust them, they were even stealing their allies passports to commit murder, they have tried to bomb American and British targets in the past and blame it on the Arabs, they have bombed a US navy ship on purpose,they have consistently ignored UN resolutions and international law except when they want to use it themselves.

Israel is a rogue state and needs reining in by the international community.It has a long history of killing civilians and lying about it, all Israels problems have been brought on them by themselves..if they had not stolen other peoples land then they would not have these problems..

If Israel is so committed to peace then why have they tried to kick all the peace talks into the long grass for years on end?

 

Israel must be ready to accept change and realise that in 2010, they can't keep hanging on to the past.

 

Why can't Islam let go of the past by accepting that the area between Lebanon and Egypt and the Mediterranean Sea to Jordan no longer belongs to them?

 

Because it was stolen from them.

 

Umm because the facts actually say that bits of it do belong to the Palestinians although Israel is trying to steal them as well.

 

If they believe that it was stolen from them, they should have a war or accept that it is no longer theirs.

 

Facts? Belong? Steal? I don't see Palestinians winning any wars or making agreements with Israel for any land besides Gaza which Israel pulled out of and released in 2006.

 

They are having a war, maybe you missed it..been going on for at least 40 years odd..

 

So terrorist action constitutes acts of war? There is a declaration?

 

Sorry but the law is on the side of the Palestinians..and their land is being stolen by the Israelis..btw you do not need to win wars to get your land back..just ask Germany and Japan..

 

According to Israel it does, otherwise they would not constantly say they are at war..lol

Ehud Barak: Israel at war with Hamas 'to the bitter end'

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article5414551.ece

 

Germany and Japan still exist due to the kindness of the United States of America. Again, either war or agreement resulted in ownership shifts or maintenance.

Sorry, but law doesn't matter without action. Sounds like you want a war with Israel due to your opinion of them. You might really want Israel to just give up and let Islam have whatever it wants, but Israel is not going to do that because the agreements that Islam wants to make are destructive and unfair to Israel. So lacking an agreement, war must occur.

 

That is metaphorical. Is a real war actually happening?

 

Wrong..Germany exists because the allies said so not America..the Russians owned half of that country..and my point was that you do not need wars to get your land back..which dismisses your point.What is all this Islam thing you keep putting in your posts?? This is between the Palestinians and the Israelis..nothing to do with Islam at all..the Israelis stole their land..end of story really and if they want peace then they are going to have to sit their asses down and make an agreement where they (*)(*)(*)(*) off out of Palestinian land..that being the west bank and let Gaza be free and not a prison camp..

 

Shiva, that's funny how you think resolution 242 is the answer for everything. It is as if you are the arbiter, and you know best what will lead to peace. Why then doesn't Israel agree to follow this resolution? Perhaps it is not as two-sided as you make it to be. Perhaps it is very stupid to expect Israel to give Palestinians areas in which only Jews live, perhaps it is stupid to expect Israel to accept to its territory hordes of enemies.

If Palestinians want a state they should understand that the big Jewish cities and territories will remain under Israeli control. That not a single Jew will be evacuated from his home, that there is no "right of return" as there is no such right to the 800,000 Jews who were expelled from the Muslim countries in 1948. They also must accept that all of Jerusalem will remain under the sovereignty of Israel.

If they want more wars, that's okay, we are ready. They won't be as lucky the next time around. If they want a state, they have to accept these conditions.

 

You are done son..Israel always calls it a war..try reading a newspaper sometime..