Racists who deny that Black women were raped during slavery are promoting rape culture

The comments above are actually very common in White Nationalist circles. They like to deny that Black women were raped during slavery. Look at the mindset of both posters. One says that because American slavery happened over 100 years ago that White-on-Black rape back then is irrelevant. The other says that the sex was probably consensual and involved promiscuous Black women seducing degenerate White men into having sex with them. The poster also asks for the hard evidence that this happened, conceding that Blacks Americans have a lot of White ancestry but denying this had anything to do with rape. After all where is the proof?

This is classic promotion of rape culture.

First of all let's assume for a moment that there is no hard evidence in the form of medical examination or admission of guilt on the part of White men who committed the sinister act. Does that make it more likely that sex between Black women and White men was consensual and that the Black women were just sluts who wanted it (appealing to the Jezebel Stereotype)? Of course not! This is a denial of reality, blaming the victim, promotion of racism and excusing rapists. Also it does matter for historical context because this has had a negative psychological effect on the Black community when it comes to social interaction with Whites. No Black person today lived through American slavery however they have knowledge of the fact that their ancestors were brought to American as slaves and subject to horrible abuse. Movies about slavery almost always address the fact that Black women were raped during slavery. Many Black women who grow up with these images and stories are psychologically damaged. They don't want to date White men because they see them as sexual predators. Its hurts their self-esteem to know their ancestors were victims of this sexual abuse. This also affects their relationships with men in general. Imagine growing up with this sort of complex about sex and then you yourself are the victim of sexual harassment, molestation or rape? That is horrible for any person to experience but then imagine that this is a major part of your racial identity? This is what your ancestors went through and now you're going through the same thing. This also affects Black men and their relationships. In the movie Malcolm X they addressed the fact that many Black men have a forbidden fruit mentality when it comes to White women. They have a racial memory of the fact that Black women were sexually abused by White men and seek to "get back" at White men by getting their hands on a White woman. This leads to a lot of conflict when it comes to interracial relationships and sex in general.

This scene from that movie illustrates my point well:



In the scene Malcolm X (played by Denzel Washington) degrades his White girlfriend by demanding that she provide him with breakfast in bed, kiss his feet and then accuses her of being obsessed with "Colored studs" and asks her when she is going to holler rape once their relationship is discovered. This is the mentality of some Black men who date White women during that time period and even today. I believe the point the director of the movie is trying to get across is that Malcolm X experienced racism from Whites in his life and this led him to hate White people and sexually objectify White women in the way his ancestors (including his maternal Grandmother who is said in the move to have been raped by a White men resulting in the conception of his mother) were.

Despite American slavery taking place over 100 years ago this is why it matters. What happened during this time period affects Americans generation after generation. As far as evidence of Black women being raped during slavery is concerned I present the following:

1. DNA evidence from the modern African-American population showing significant European admixture.

2. Common sense on the reality that slaves were not in a position to resist the sexual advances of their masters.

3. Testimonies by Black female slaves of the sexual abuse they experienced at the hands of White slave masters.

The African-American gene pool is around 20-30% European genetically and roughly 40% of African-American Y-Chromosomes are derived from Europe. Considering the fact that most interracial relationships between Blacks and Whites involve Black men with White women and historically after slavery interracial marriage was not only taboo but illegal the only way this genetic research makes sense is if lots of sex occurred between White men and Black women during slavery. We're talking about millions of Black women producing mixed race children with White male slave masters. This was so common that they even had names for these mixed people e.g. Mulatto, Quadroon and Octoroon. Contrary to the claims of Fading Light White men would not be hanged for bragging about raping Black women in the antebellum South. There is no reason to believe they would advertise this publicly (privately is another matter) but they couldn't hide it given how many biracial children were being born on the plantation. There is even a well known scandal involving a President of the United States, Thomas Jefferson, who owned slaves who allegedly fathered children with one of his female slaves, Sally Hemings. The story is that Sally was the half-sister of his late wife as they shared the same father who was also a slave master. Jefferson pursued a relationship with Sally which her own family claims was consensual and the public gained knowledge of this which became a national scandal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson–Hemings_controversy

In 1802 the journalist James T. Callender, after being refused an appointment to a Postmaster position by Jefferson and issuing veiled threats of "consequences", reported that Jefferson had fathered several children with a slave concubine named Sally. His family denied the allegation. Others privately or publicly made the claim.[16] Elijah Fletcher, the headmaster of the New Glasgow Academy (Amherst County, Virginia) visited Jefferson in 1811 and wrote in his diary:

"The story of black Sal is no farce—That he cohabits with her and has a number of children by her is a sacred truth—and the worst of it is he keeps the same children slaves—an unnatural crime which is very common in these parts."

I imagine that there were some consensual relationships between White male slave masters and Black female slaves. The nature of these sexual interactions probably depended on how the slaves were treated however by definition rape is forced sexual intercourse. If the victim is not given a choice then it is rape. So whether we are talking violent forcible rape or coercion if a slave master approaches a slave for sex and she doesn't have a choice in the matter then she was raped. The idea that these women were just sluts who wanted sex with White men or forced them to do work is a disgusting fantasy on the part of Fading Light and other racist Whites who deny slave rape. Beyond that we do have testimonies from Black women who were slaves who told abolitionist journalists about the sexual abuse they experienced or wrote about it themselves.

http://www.icl-fi.org/english/wv/archives/oldsite/2005/Slavery-841.html

All rape is wrong. This part of history needs to be looked at objectively especially with regards to the affect it has on race-relations today, the blatant propaganda being perpetuated by those in denial and the racist narrative that Black men who rape White women do so because of some innate tendency on the part of Blacks to be hypersexual and violent. After all when White men had more access to Black women many of them took advantage of that abusing the power they had over their lives with sexual violence and abuse.

 

So was Sally Hemmings a rape victim?

 

She could have been for all I know. I've only read a little bit about her and have the movie about the scandal on DVD. The movie depicts her sister being raped and gives some interesting insight in to the mentality of slave masters and slaves on interracial sex. Notice I didn't say that no sexual intercourse between White men and Black women was consensual. I can imagine that there were Black women who were interested in White male slave masters who were kind to them. That too has been depicted in movies. In Sally Heming's case her relationship with Thomas Jefferson was supposedly that of a slave girl who reminded him of his wife and he, feeling lonely, approached her for a relationship while she was young and impressionable and may have been attracted to his wealth and power. Or maybe she just raped her until she stopped fighting it. I don't know. The oral tradition of her family is that they had a romantic relationship, the sexual attraction was mutual and she stayed with him despite being given papers that legally freed her until his death. Their children were raised slaves and later freed when they were old enough some being able to pass as White considering they were only 1/8th Black (Octoroon).

My point is that we know for an objective fact that interracial sex took place during slavery and it was very common based on genetic research. I'm sure there were consensual cases but to assume that it was all or mostly consensual or that most Black women who were slaves were just whores who wanted sex with White slave masters is unrealistic, insulting, dishonest, extremely racist and a promotion of rape culture (e.g. blame the victim or claim they wanted it). These were real people with lives, feelings and values whose dignity was disrespected on a repeated basis some throughout their whole lives and they never received any legal justice. They were women not sex toys or Jezebels or sexual savages and it was not bestiality to have sex with them as this evil racist bitch claimed in that post. Oh and no doubt Black men were raped too. Not only by White male slave masters interested in homosexual sex but they were taken advantage of by White women as well including the slave master's wives, daughters and anyone else on the plantation. There is documentation of that too.

http://www.h-net.org/reviews/showrev.php?id=2348

 

While this data may be interesting, what's got to do with anything? White slave owners were such a tiny portion of the population at large, and the slavery thing has already demonized them, what possible good could come from blaming a 'rape culture' on them as well? Is this just another ludicrous attempt to force some white guilt down the throats of the gullible?

 

The advocates of rape culture are the ones who are denying that Black women were raped by White men during slavery. This isn't about making Whites as a collective feel guilty but about acknowledging the sins of the past. Most of the slave masters had to be wealthy to own a plantation so indeed they were a small percentage of the general White American population however the same is true for Black men who rape White women today. The odds of the average White woman in America being raped by a Black man are astronomically slim. Yet White Supremacists argue that Black men are somehow innately prone to rape because of a Black-on-White rape epidemic. I showed in another thread this isn't true and there is no scientific basis for making such a claim.

 

I get it, this is just another lame attempt to make slavery 'relevant' again. Its over, been over, and what did or didn't happen then is totally irrelevant now. Who do you think there are more of in this country; blacks that rape whites, or so-called white supremacists that talk about supposed rapes during slavery? For some reason I think both numbers will be a small fragment of the overall communities, in which case, what is the greater point? That these small fragments make for interesting discussions or some odd attempt to paint some things with the broad brush...

 

This discussion is certainly relevant to a forum about race-relations. The number of either group is irrelevant. If you want to talk about race-relations then this is a legitimate subject to talk about. Slavery was a long time ago in American history. That doesn't mean its effects are not still felt today on a social, economic, physical and psychological level.

 

Who are these advocates of rape culture you are talking about?

 

Anyone who rationalizes, dismisses or engages in rape is an advocate of rape culture. The comments from Stormfront that I quoted are examples. There are many racists who think like this. The denial that Black women were raped during slavery is one of the claims that made me realize that most racists are not capable of honest conversation. I always knew they were evil and hateful but the dishonesty disgusts me just as much.

 

It seems to me that the rape of slaves is pretty much a given. I mean, most of the slaves today are sex slaves. So I don't see much point in trying to deny the obvious. But it is dumb to accuse people of promoting "rape culture" if they do deny it. The main reason being: the culture of pre-civil war slaveowners is not the culture of rapists today. The real rape culture that exists today (i.e. Islam, with the sex slaves they CURRENTLY own) is defended by the new left.

 

So in other words, you are making a point that no one on this forum has made, but was made on Stormfront? Why aren't you posting there?

 

Rape is rape. It doesn't matter if we are talking about modern day rapists, antebellum slavery rapists or the raping done after pillaging villages throughout history. If you defend it or deny it you are promoting rape culture. I have never heard a serious or respectable liberal defend Muslim rapists. Can you give me any examples? A video maybe or a post from anywhere on the internet where an advocate of liberal views has done this?

When I posted on Stormfront years ago they edited my posts to write things I never said so I don't trust them or bother with them. They are reliable though for finding quotes by White Supremacists on the internet. I don't know that no one on this forum has ever defended rape. I haven't read every post. Have you? I just know that this forum is saturated with the opinions of White Supremacists and this attitude is common enough to be worth discussing.

 

Well it seems like a ridiculous topic, and one that you are avoiding addressing to people who might actually believe it. If there is a contingent of people who think no slaves were ever raped I guess we should know soon enough in this thread.

 

If you don't think the topic is worth discussing you don't have to participate.

 

Well, I don't know about a "serious or respectable" liberal. That's like finding a unicorn. But here's a "gimme your refugees" leftist who makes the point pretty well...while of course throwing hate on white guys at the same time.

 

This is news to me. Every group has its nutcases. I posted on a board where a White Nationalist shouted at some feminists protesting topless that they need to "get raped" which became a joke within that community. So you've got one woman holding a sign. Can you find a liberal message board where posters are seriously discussing the merits of Muslim rapists being allowed in the West? I doubt that this is anywhere near being a thing that liberals regularly talk about anywhere. The quote I selected from Stormfront represents a topic that is brought up enough to reasonably state that many White Nationalists believe this or at least claim to.

 

I'm participating because I was surprised at the topic. I didn't know it was an issue and so far, I still don't.

 

Stormfront?!

 

Thread title- Racists who deny that Black women were raped during slavery are promoting rape culture
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There's been truckloads of anti-white propaganda over the years, so how do we know that's just not more of it?
For example black author Alex Haley's well-known book and TV series 'Roots' was claimed to be true, but it later turned out he'd made up huge chunks of it.

WIKI- "Harvard professor Dr. Henry Louis Gates Jr said 'Roots is a work of the imagination rather than strict historical scholarship'"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Haley

 

This is clearly an issue. Obviously White Nationalists on Stormfront and elsewhere are racist lunatics so this isn't a popular opinion among the general population however it is relevant to the subject of race-relations.

 

Again...Stormfront! You should be posting this there.

 

Yeah, in that context, "get raped" sounds like a comment in the vein of "go **** yourself" or the wonderful British phrase "get stuffed". Basically just a colorful "**** you".

I'm not gonna go looking. You asked for "a post from anywhere on the internet where an advocate of liberal views has done this". I have done that, and I'm not going to chase moving goalposts. But look a little closer at that post, and you'll notice that although the physical sign may have been held by just one woman, the message was echoed by Rote Antifa-Front (RAF). That's right, the post was from Antifa, not just that one woman.

Not among regular, old-school liberals, no. But the new left is something else. While the batshit alt-left has people like the woman pictured above (explicitly saying "we want your rapists"), the "normal" left promotes Islamic rape culture in exactly the way that the OP mentions: by denying its existence.

 

The impression I got from the comment was that he was saying they deserved to be raped for walking around topless i.e. "If you get raped it's your fault."

I know nothing about that organization and for all I know she created the sign herself. If this is a real thing among "The New Left" surely they would discuss this on a message board somewhere or in a video. I had no trouble finding the Stormfront thread where I got those posts.

To what extent are they doing this? I've never heard any liberals deny that there are rapists from Islamic countries as there are all countries or even that some ountries and communities have some backward social attitudes about sex that enable rape culture. I have heard White Nationalists and other Islamophobes claim that rape is "normal" in Islamic countries and that the Muslim hordes are invading Europe bringing their culture of sexual degeneracy including rapists. This reminds me of Donald Trump generalizing that many Mexican immigrants are rapists and other types of low lives despite there being some decent people among them.

There are nutcases in all groups but I can go on any prominent racist message board such as Stormfront or VNN and threads about Black women not being raped by White slave maters during slavery is casually talked about with many racists there supporting the view (and making some of the most disgusting comments about it imaginable) while I have never even heard of liberals doing this for Muslim rapists or any other group.

 

I'm unsure why you're surprised that Stormfront is white nationalist.

There's only two things that contribute to rape culture:

1. Forcibly raping people in a public fashion.
2. Imminently threatening/calling for forcible rape.

 

This is quite similar to what working women face today in workplaces as sexual harassment. 30% of female doctors surveyed by JAMA had to put up with sexual advances by their superiors. But becoming concubines for their masters could have elevated slave women's status in colonial society. Jefferson freed all of Hemings' surviving children, for instance.