Religion in Retreat

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Diablo, Jul 11, 2019.

  1. Paul7

    Paul7 Well-Known Member

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    We will always disagree on what is an observable metric, especially those of with a relationship with the person of Jesus Christ.

    ALL laws are an imposition of somebody's morality.
     
  2. Paul7

    Paul7 Well-Known Member

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    https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/christianity-china

    The article's number is actually higher. Note China is on track to have the world's largest Christian population by 2030, and that there are more Christians there today than Communist Party members. No retreat of religion in China.

    What we're seeing is simply a shifting of the center of Christianity from the West to other parts of the globe, much like Christianity once shifted from the Middle East to Europe. See Prof. Philip Jenkin's book, "The Next Christendom: The Coming of Global Christianity".
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2019
  3. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    As long as it’s your imposition of morality everything is ok, right?

    Sounds an awfully lot like the principals Muslim extremists follow.
    It’s ironic that you think y’all are different.

    You might have trouble with what the word observable means if you think belief can be classified as such:
    ob·serv·a·ble
    /əbˈzərvəb(ə)l/
    adjective
    1. able to be noticed or perceived; discernible.
     
  4. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Its very interesting how the ancients had ideas that are now being proven by quantum physics. They looked at the world around them and said to themselves - who ever created this world - must be like "this". When I look up at the universe on a clear night - it looks like a massive neural network.

    The strange thing about our existence is 1) that matter and energy became aware to begin with but 2) that some how this awareness was able to manifest itself into physical reality. For example - if you look down at your finger and wiggle it - it happens. How is it that the will - your thought - was able to make this happen - manifest into physical reality.

    Now - if you could do this externally - this would be Godlike powers - .. as in make a tree wiggle rather than your finger.

    Here is the thing though - if the configuration of matter and energy we refer to the universe is aware of its existence - and it can - through force of will - wiggle its finger .. this is also a God. It doesn't even need to be able to manifest its will on external reality -.. just within itself.
     
  5. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes .. the idea that something came from nothing is preposterous nonsense IMO. Even if one believes that God did it ... God is still something - it is not nothing. The idea that Scientists believed that something came out of nothing is even more ridiculous. That would violate the conservation of mass - that matter can neither be created nor destroyed.
     
  6. Paul7

    Paul7 Well-Known Member

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    Apparently you aren't any different, since you want to impose your version of morality.

    Get back to me when you observe non-life becoming life.
     
  7. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    I'll be happy to wait for science to discover that before leaping into a fantasy to replace reality. Evolution answers all those questions about wiggling fingers but self-awareness certainly is miraculous when you think about it.
     
  8. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I am not sure that evolution does explain the wiggling of the finger. It explains how organisms with the ability to wiggle a finger survived over those that had no such ability due to being better equipped for survival. What it does not explain is how that ability came to be in the first place.

    What I mean by this is that evolution starts at a place where the organism has already developed the ability to manifest a thought into physical reality. It does not explain how this happened in the first place. This problem is very subtle and hard to put into words.

    You have to imagine a blob of matter and energy in its most primitive form. That blob is becoming vaguely aware. Over time these thoughts become more complex .. these thoughts can now be measured as electrical interactions within the primitive brain of the blob.

    At some pont these thoughts become so complex that the blob is no longer just realizing that it exists - it develops a will - a desire - such as the desire to move one of its parts so that it can explore. How does the thought then get that part to move ? We can theorize how this happened on the basis of how we do it - somehow (and we don't know how) that thought triggers the appropriate electrical response which makes the finger move .. but how did this happen to begin with ? The connections between the thought and the action do not yet exist.

    This connection had to be created - somehow.
     
  9. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    Sure it does! An amoeba develops the ability to push things out of its way. It survives better. That pushing flank develops a protrusion that does a better job of it, and on and on.

    How do you know that? Single-cell organisms don't have the capacity to think but they can seek out food and beneficial environments. They can surround ("grasp") food to assimilate it.

    I don't think so G.O. Blobs don't have the kind of central nervous system (brain) that is required for awareness. They respond to stimuli.

    You're putting awareness and intention WAY ahead of its actual position in the process of development. Evolution governs the whole process in the context of naturally-occurring mutations. Maybe this seemingly "miraculous" process can be seen in practical terms in the evolution of the eye. You're probably familiar with that.
     
  10. Paul7

    Paul7 Well-Known Member

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    The entire premise of evolution is flawed, genetic mutations result in devolution, not evolution.
     
  11. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    1) you are looking at something that already exists - not answering how that thing came to be in the first place.
    2) You are a blob of matter and energy - and you have awareness
    3) I did not say that a single celled organism does not have the capacity to think.
     
  12. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Your mistake is putting ALL Law - into the same category - and not distinguishing between what is legitimate and what is illegitimate law.
     
  13. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    Scientists do that. The alternative is speculation.

    The usual meaning and understanding of a "blob" considers it to have far less differentiation than a human does.

    Do you really believe it does? ...or did you say that wrong?
     
  14. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No they don't - not with respect to the question at hand.

    .

    You are a blob is matter and energy.

    You inferred that I has stated that a single celled organism does not have the capacity to think. I stated that I had made no such claim.
     
  15. Hawkins

    Hawkins Active Member

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    This is expected because humans' mind is subjected to indoctrination. We receive secular education since childhood, which slowly changed us along time.
     
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  16. it's just me

    it's just me Well-Known Member

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    Actually, they are letting wannabe atheist philosophers and TV do their thinking for them.
     
  17. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Einstein amended the law to read "the total mass and energy of a system remains constant". E='s and all.

    "out of nothing" is just a convenient way of saying "beyond our perception and understanding". Just like "god did it".
     
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  18. Imnotreallyhere

    Imnotreallyhere Well-Known Member Donor

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    What do you think that means? That we should believe that Jesus is god, or that we should try to emulate Jesus?
     

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