Republican AND Christian? How does THAT work?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by saspatz, Mar 8, 2016.

  1. jrr777

    jrr777 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2015
    Messages:
    6,983
    Likes Received:
    279
    Trophy Points:
    83
    I think by definition you are a republican. However today's republic is far from definition. By definition, Washington has no republican or democrat, they just hide behind the title. One could consider our current government, a mobocracy. The richest group wins.
     
  2. GeorgiaAmy

    GeorgiaAmy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2014
    Messages:
    7,844
    Likes Received:
    79
    Trophy Points:
    48
    It makes my brain hurt when the faithful affirm both an all knowing god and the belief prayer can change outcome.
     
  3. thinkitout

    thinkitout Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2014
    Messages:
    4,897
    Likes Received:
    1,273
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You'd better get used to the pain.
     
  4. GeorgiaAmy

    GeorgiaAmy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2014
    Messages:
    7,844
    Likes Received:
    79
    Trophy Points:
    48
    I used to be very religious. I'm not anymore... It all started with the Apocrypha... I don't usually address the faithful unless they say something particularly unsettling...
     
  5. saspatz

    saspatz Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2015
    Messages:
    374
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    18
    I know that taxes are used by our government to carry out policies we could not otherwise accomplish. For me it's a matter of priorities. You are right that spending needs to be curbed and taxes need to be raised. I think I would cut in different places though. We need to stop funding research for profitable businesses like oil, gas and pharmaceuticals. They can well afford to do their own research. Instead of balancing the budget on the backs of the most vulnerable we need to get rid of the tax breaks for companies that are shipping our jobs overseas.


    Many churches are doing wonderful things all over this country, my own church has a community mentoring program where people come along side individuals or families in trouble and help them find their way to self sufficiency. We have an excellent success rate.
    That being said they are in no position to pick up the slack if public housing were defunded or if food stamps were severely reduced, neither are they in a position to provide basic medical care if Medicaid was cut.
    The church is better at some things but the government has the reach and the resources the church simply doesn't have. As much as government programs have their problems I just don't see any other way to avoid an American refugee population. In my community many of our homeless families have both parents working and they still can't find housing they can afford. This is not a high rent area.

    I too would love to see both sides get reasonable. I'm just sick of the poor always taking the heaviest hit.
     
  6. thinkitout

    thinkitout Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2014
    Messages:
    4,897
    Likes Received:
    1,273
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The Apocryphal books are an exclusivity of the Catholic denomination of the Christian religion. The purpose of the Reformation was to address the meandering adulteration of the teachings of Jesus and to get back to the basic concepts. Although I respect Catholicism as the earliest form of Christianity, I have realized that a high percentage of Catholics lose faith because of the ritualism and implied contradictions that followers are obliged to accept.

    All knowledge we hold is based on assumption, but innate responses to our environment and “natural instincts” are responsible for our continued existence. These indicate a predisposition to direction which cannot be logically attributed to “natural selection”. Instead, all aspects of life and environment indicate a carefully planned and meticulously executed “creation”, demonstrating purpose in every detail. "Accidental perfection" defies reason and is in itself proof of the existence of God.

    Many people question the existence of God because of the presence of evil on our world. They think that a kind and just God would not allow the suffering and injustices that have made life so hard for so many. What they fail to realize is that the potential for evil exists necessarily in order to define goodness.

    Religion presents the presumptive doctrine that life on earth is a proving grounds to qualify and prepare us for eternal life. Christianity and most other religions state that God gives us free choice to either love or reject Him, and our moral decisions show whether we are willing to conform to His wishes even when we are not forced to do so. If we were to take an examination featuring multiple choice questions, would the test be valid if there was only one answer to each question to choose from? God wants us to love Him and make the right choices because we choose to, not because we were programmed to do so.

    Human thoughts cannot aspire to perfection, and the number of Christian denominations attests to the varied interpretations of the Bible. However, you cannot go wrong if you focus on the passages quoting the spoken words of Jesus.

    Don't look for reasons to reject religion. None of them is worth the price.
     
  7. GeorgiaAmy

    GeorgiaAmy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2014
    Messages:
    7,844
    Likes Received:
    79
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Eternal hellfire for the souls god created knowing they were damned in utero?
     
  8. thinkitout

    thinkitout Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2014
    Messages:
    4,897
    Likes Received:
    1,273
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Preordination is discussed in the Bible only for those that God had chosen to perform certain tasks, such as Jeremiah and some of the prophets to carry out God's work. The only one that seemed to be predestined to be damned was Judas. . . . but Jesus made it clear that he loved him, nonetheless, and the eventual fate of Judas' soul is unclear.

    Other than these exceptions, all people have free will; whether God knows the outcome of their choices is irrelevant.

    However, we cannot trust our own minds to pass judgment on a God who asks us to be righteous as He is; deception is the work of the "prince of lies", the originator of doubt. Distrust of God and loss of faith in His mercy and love is the work of Satan, who challenges us to defy God in order to obtain ALL of our blessings here on earth. It's not worth it.
     
  9. GeorgiaAmy

    GeorgiaAmy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2014
    Messages:
    7,844
    Likes Received:
    79
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Does prayer have power to change outcome?
    A hermaphrodite, who can they marry?
     
  10. thinkitout

    thinkitout Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2014
    Messages:
    4,897
    Likes Received:
    1,273
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Prayer will not change anything without faith that it will change. I know from personal experiences that it certainly can.

    Leave your second question for hermaphrodites to worry about.
     
  11. GeorgiaAmy

    GeorgiaAmy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2014
    Messages:
    7,844
    Likes Received:
    79
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Believing in an all knowing god and prayer that can change outcome is contradictory. The two cannot coexist.
     
  12. thinkitout

    thinkitout Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2014
    Messages:
    4,897
    Likes Received:
    1,273
    Trophy Points:
    113
    An all-knowing God would already know who is going to pray; however it is better to simplify things by just trusting and no second guessing Him. There are countless inexplicable paradoxes in nature, yet need we waste time worrying about them? To trust God eases our burdens and clears our minds to concentrate on what is REALLY important.
     
  13. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    57,613
    Likes Received:
    17,160
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Quite logically actually: It Say you saw me hungry and you fed me. It does not say you saw me hungry and made sure Joe fed me. It says you saw me naked and you clothed me, not you saw me Naked and made sure Jane gave me some clothes. It says you saw me thirtsty and you gave me something to drink It does not say you saw me thirsty and made sure Sarah gave me something to drink. In the Bible, Old and New Testament, charity is an individual not a corporate responsibility. The left gives its time to form over substance exercises in grandstanding that actually helps no one. They will sir stand with the goats come judgement day because theyw ere more interested in taking credit that in helping people.
     
  14. saspatz

    saspatz Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2015
    Messages:
    374
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    18
  15. AlphaOmega

    AlphaOmega Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2013
    Messages:
    28,747
    Likes Received:
    4,821
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Stopped at your second video....you just proved my point. No one said poor are lazy, the point of the videos YOU posted illustrate that the people who claim to be poor are sitting at home with cable tv air conditioning and playing video games. That isnt poor thats lazy. I told you before you were confusing the two. You just proved it.
     
  16. Soupnazi

    Soupnazi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2008
    Messages:
    19,029
    Likes Received:
    3,631
    Trophy Points:
    113
    2 Thessolonians 3:10 " For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither shall he eat "

    Pretty close to what you asked.

    Now explain where the bible says we should redistribute money to the subjectively poor by government force.
     
  17. Soupnazi

    Soupnazi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2008
    Messages:
    19,029
    Likes Received:
    3,631
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Evidence?

    Government assistance was not created due to failure of charity in fact it was created in spite of charity and it's success
     
  18. saspatz

    saspatz Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2015
    Messages:
    374
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Unlike the people of Biblical times we have a representative form of government. This means that I am responsible for voting for individuals and policies that match my priorities the closest. So, if I believe we need to rebuild our highways (just as an example), I vote for the individual or policy that will hold rebuilding the highways as a priority. I understand that rebuilding those highways will cost money and my taxes will be spent in that way. Others who believe differently are free to vote for their own priorities. In the end we a supposed to have a government that represents the values of the majority of the nation. In order to have a functioning society we need to pay the bill for maintaining the sort of society we want. For example, the rule of law may be my priority. This costs money and I expect my taxes to be spent toward that principle. I could give many other examples of priorities that cost money. Without these things we would not be America. I don't get to pick and choose where my individual taxes are spent. I entrust that responsibility in the representatives I elect. If I disagree with their priorities, I am free to elect somebody else. If enough people agree with me then a different person will be elected to fill that position. That is how democracy works.
    Therefore, just as it is not theft to require that people pay taxes to ensure National Defense at it's current level it is not theft to use those taxes toward other priorities such as National Infrastructure or social assistance. We elect representative that reflect our priorities and they determine how best to use the taxes we pay. Taxation WITH representation is how our government functions.
     
  19. Texas Republican

    Texas Republican Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2015
    Messages:
    28,121
    Likes Received:
    19,405
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Wrong. Republicans believe in what Jesus taught: it is Christian to help your neighbor if they are less fortunate than you are. This is a person-to-person situation. Jesus said nothing about Rome taxing its citizens at 90% and redistributing that wealth across the known world to equalize incomes.
     
  20. saspatz

    saspatz Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2015
    Messages:
    374
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    18
    The difference between our positions is not as far as you think. I agree that institutions of higher learning should be held to a standard of academic achievement rather than "Prestige chasing" with amenities that have little if anything to do with education.
    I see the simplest way of accomplishing this as holding the purse strings to ensure compliance. A grading system based on academic achievement and job placement should be the determining factor for how much government money will be made available (if any) for student loans at every institution of higher education in the country. The emphasis should be on job placement.
     
  21. saspatz

    saspatz Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2015
    Messages:
    374
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ezekiel 16:49 “‘Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy."
    If it was not a corporate responsibility as well as an individual one, why was all of Sodom destroyed?

    I found it informative to learn a bit about the behavior of actual sheep and goats to understand what the Bible was referring to. In Biblical times such knowledge was common but in modern times it requires a small amount of research.
    The difference between the two has to do with their response to a threat (like a wolf or other predator). The sheep will come together with the strong rams on the exterior of the group and the lambs and less able in the center. Thus will they defend against the threat as a group defending the group. Goats on the other hand will disperse and run in many different directions, the focus being the survival of the individual. Every goat for themselves alone.
     
  22. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    57,613
    Likes Received:
    17,160
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Because not even one righteous man was to be found. It was each individuals responsibility and none of them were doing it. But the difference between the sheep and the goats in the parable isn't works it is attitude of the heart. The goats have plenty of works and say so, hell you can all but see them handing in resumes. The goats by there answer don't recall having done anything at all. So what's going on? It is really rather simple. The sheep remember nothing because God changed their hearts and for them the Godly works are as remarkable as breathing and as memorable. For the goats on the other hand such things are out of character and require effort and planning and are therefore never forgotten.
     
  23. saspatz

    saspatz Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2015
    Messages:
    374
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    18
    History of public assistance in America.
    http://www.crf-usa.org/bill-of-rights-in-action/bria-14-3-a-how-welfare-began-in-the-united-states.html
    During the Great Depression of the 1930s, local and state governments as well as private charities were overwhelmed by needy families seeking food, clothing, and shelter. In 1935, welfare for poor children and other dependent persons became a federal government responsibility, which it remained for 60 years.
    I postulate that the churches are still in no position to provide for the poor of this nation. Without the Federal programs we currently have the charitable systems would be overwhelmed and we would have armies of indigent peoples.
    http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2015/04/13/get-a-job-most-welfare-recipients-already-have-one/ It’s poor-paying jobs, not unemployment, that strains the welfare system.
    The Wall Street Journal is scarcely a left wing news source.
     
  24. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    57,613
    Likes Received:
    17,160
    Trophy Points:
    113
    So the government road to the rescue of people who had been put out of work by it's own bad policies and poor choices.
     
  25. saspatz

    saspatz Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2015
    Messages:
    374
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    18
    James 2:14-26
    14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

    18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your[a] works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?[c] 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”[d] And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

    25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?

    26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
     

Share This Page