Republican missconception of the Obama tax

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by GrayMan, Aug 24, 2011.

  1. GrayMan

    GrayMan Well-Known Member

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    Please help me understand your logic. I listen to you republicans/conservatives say the same thing nearly every day. You claim that if Obama enacts his tax increase on the top earners, it will decrease jobs and decrease government revenue.

    First off, unless the tax is insanely high, tax increases create more revenue, not less.

    Secondly, a tax hike on the personal income tax is not the same as corporate tax. Increased tax on individuals do not affect business growth.

    Obama wants to fight for business growth and has actually suggested a LOWER tax for Corporate income tax. He also fights for equality and a "uniform tax" for everyone, like it says in the Constitution of the United States, by eliminating tax deductions and loopholes that allow some to get away with paying less or no tax at all.

    Why do republicans think that Obamas tax hikes will stunt job growth?

    Another point I would like to make is that corporations do not decide to hire someone becuase they made more money this year. They decide to hire more people when demand for their product makes it necessary to do so. The only two ways to increase jobs is to increase the spending of everyday citizens, which means greater wages to increase their buying power. If people did not buy goods there would be no reason to hire workers to produce them. The other is to increase tariffs slightly on countries like china, who take jobs away from the US.

    -You need to fix the hole in the glass and then you can fill it up.
    -Tariffs on China and then increase spending power the of the middle class to stimulate economic growth.
     
  2. akphidelt

    akphidelt Banned

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    Republican's aren't the brightest bunch of people. They still have not figured out the difference between business income and personal income. Like Warren Buffet says, he has never met someone who has skipped out on making a profit because of taxes!
     
  3. MissJonelyn

    MissJonelyn New Member

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    Well at least we can spell "misconception." Not to mention tax rate have been increasing with low taxes since the Clinton administration. As a high a revenue of 2.5 Trillion.
     
  4. SiliconMagician

    SiliconMagician Banned

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    Well my point is:

    We need a paradigm shift in our society to a society based on savings and not consumption. We have to stop expecting the American Consumer to beggar himself with TOYS in order to keep our economy going. That is the largest problem with our economy.

    The Government shouldn't have to give people money to buy TVs, DVD players, Iphones, Ipads, etc.. just because it keeps the economy going. The American People themselves need a lesson in frugality. Many have learned it, and are paying down their private debts.

    The idea that you can force people to go out and buy stuff by giving them more money when they are in debt up to thier ears is outrageous. If teh Government gave me a stimulus check, it would go to pay off credit cards, or into a bank account, not buy new (*)(*)(*)(*).
     
  5. Wildjoker5

    Wildjoker5 Well-Known Member

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    This is the after effect, not the first effect. And I will get back to it.

    Small business owners use the profit from their business as personal income. This is how it hurts the "job creators" cause a lot of jobs are created from these small business owners. As most small business do, they don't always make ginormous profits, but they are taxed on what they made each quarter of what they made, this is usually 35% (right now) and the deductions and expenses don't get figured out till the end of the year. Raising the tax rate thrughout the year will cause most businesses to spend more on taxes before they can pay their employees and other bills. If you have to pay the government more in taxes, then you have less to pay your employees.

    Say a resturant (typical small business) has $500,000 in sales for a certain quarter. That $500,000 is taxed before any other calculation is done. Now if it is 35%, your tax is $175,000. If it is 38%, your tax is $190,000. The difference is $15,000 each quarter or $60,000 a year, which would account for at least 4 paying full time. 4 jobs might not seem like a lot, or $15,000/$60,000 doesn't seem like a lot, but time and time again over the biggest group of job suppliers (small business) starts equalling a lot of part time jobs. Now this is on a small scale cause most small businesses would be making more that $500,000 to cover rent, electricity, employees, products and so forth, so really having a small business doing $1 mil in business sales is not a far stretch. But the actual profit is calculated at the end of the year and that is when small business owners get their refunds after the told the government the expenses and how much they actually made vs how much they paid.

    Back to the revenue question, because the government took the money for 4 jobs from the business, that is 4 less people paying their own income tax, buying less products, and spending less in the economy creating more business. The government took $60,000 from that business based on the thought that the business was making $2,000,000 for the year. But after the small business owner files his taxes after 1 Jan, the government finds out that the business owner actually only made $500,000 after all the expenses that comes with running a resturant. There for the government has to payback $562,000 of the money they collected cause he origionally paid in $760,000 based on $2mil worth of income. Now if that money had been in the hands of the owner the whole time instead of the government, then he could have hired more people, and they would have paid income taxes and spent the money.

    Then have Obama force the senate to have a vote on Paul Ryan's plan which does all that.

    Cause it takes the money out of the hands of those that can pay employees if they had the money.

    And taking more taxes away from the small business owners that would be affected by higher tax rates decreases the people that can buy things.

    I am really not well read up or have experience in this so I won't respond.

    Making things more expensive coming from China doesn't automatically mean that people will pay for American made products.
     
  6. PatrickT

    PatrickT Well-Known Member

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    Akphidelt is right. Republicans are too stupid to understand that when the government takes money from businesses and individuals that money isn't there to invest in business growth, in jobs, or in anything else worthwhile.

    Republicans are so stupid that they think that liberals don't understand that much "personal" income comes from self-employed business people.

    Republicans are so studid that they object to liberals demanding that those paying for the government now have to pay more so the liberals and their friends pay no income tax.

    I hope all of the self-appointed elite liberals go to California.
     
  7. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    Not really. In the U.S., regardless of tax rate, our tax revenue is about 18% of GDP. That is our "natural" tax level. Anything over that causes changes in behavior.

    It does in the case of small business, which ironically is the biggest potential growth engine.

    Really? Where is the written proposal for a budget and tax reform that his administration has produced?

    We study history.

    I agree. We need to fix the spending problem (hole in the glass) before we address increased revenues.

    We can't put tariffs on China. We owe them too much money.
     
  8. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    Yes, but people find ways to hide their profit (legally or not) when taxes are too high. Buffett himself hides most of his profit in his corporation. What a hypocrite.
     
  9. GrayMan

    GrayMan Well-Known Member

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    So small business owners do not qualify for corperate tax rates and have to pay under the personal income rate? Sounds like a screwed up system to me.
     

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