Russia backs Chechnya government's denials over killing and torture of gay men

So what, every nation has its cultural norms that others must comply with. For example, Eastern Europe's norms are killing and hating Russians, and our norms are killing and hating Orthodox Christians and brown people in the Middle East. Chechnya is a mountainous country and Islamic, so it has its honor killings. Is a homosexual's life worth more than that of another's? I don't think so.

 

" Eastern Europe's norms are killing and hating Russians" LOL, you said you were 100 years old. so many years with RT.ru . according Chechnya is not part pf Muscovy , right? i agree, but why its not official ?

 

well: "Kadyrov’s Thugs"



"One of the arrested men was Adam Israilov (the nephew of Zelimkhan-Bes)."

http://www.interpretermag.com/kadyrovs-thugs/

+
Boris Nemtsov´s case
"

The investigation into the murder of Russian opposition politician Boris Nemtsov seemed to be following the same script as another high-profile Moscow murder mystery from eight years ago: the shooting of investigative journalist Anna Politkovskaya.


Five Chechen men, some of them related, were found guilty of killing her, but it remains unclear who ordered the hit. In Nemtsov’s case, five Chechen men, some of them related, were arrested on Saturday and accused of his murder, but it is unclear who ordered the killing. But then Ramzan Kadyrov spoke up and the script changed completely. Late on Sunday night, the former warlord who runs the North Caucasus republic of Chechnya called Zaur Dadayev, one of the two men charged with murder, a “true patriot” and suggested his devotion to Russia could not be questioned even if he was found guilty. On Mr Kadyrov’s Instagram account, which features pictures of him stroking lions, hugging President Vladimir Putin or posing with his mother, he confirmed that Mr Dadayev had until recently been deputy commander of the “North Batallion”, part of a Chechen Republic’s interior ministry force fiercely loyal to the Chechen leader. The indictment of a senior regional police commander seen as loyal to Mr Putin has raised a new set of questions about Nemtsov’s killing, the most high-profile murder in Russia since Mr Putin took power 15 years ago. Some members of the opposition now believe that there is a possibility that Nemtsov fell victim to infighting in an opaque and out-of-balance regime. “The news now lies not in that the suspects turned out to be Kadyrov men — nobody’s identity has been proven yet — but that the federal authorities for some reason decided to name Kadyrov men as Nemtsov’s murderers,” wrote Oleg Kashin, an investigative journalist critical of Mr Putin."


He said Mr Kadyrov’s statement looked like “an attempt to grab back the initiative from those who for some reason were ready to go as far in the Nemtsov murder investigation as convenient for them — so far that it was very much to Kadyrov’s dislike”. Mr Kadyrov’s high-profile intervention has given rise to speculation that he might have organised the murder as a “present” to Mr Putin, or that the killing was a plot aimed at toppling the Chechen ruler. “The question is simple: an initiative by Kadyrov or an order by Putin?” tweeted opposition politician Leonid Volkov. Mr Kadyrov is the son of Akhmad Kadyrov, a Chechen clan leader who once led the North Caucasus republic’s fight for independence from Russia. But he sided with Moscow at the beginning of the second Chechen war in 1999 and became president of Chechnya. After his father’s assassination in 2004, Ramzan Kadyrov became deputy prime minister, and three years later Mr Putin made him president. It is an old story: The Kremlin fosters a baby dragon, which it then has to keep feeding to stop him from setting everything on fire Anna Politkovskaya, murdered journalist While Mr Kadyrov has helped Mr Putin pacify the once restive territory with a mixture of repressions, post-war reconstruction and building new mosques, there have been concerns that he might become difficult for Mr Putin to control. “He [Kadyrov] behaves like he has a place on the national political stage now,” said Mairbek Vatchagayev, a former official in the late 1990s Chechen government of Aslan Maskhadov who now lives in exile in Paris. Mr Kadyrov addressed thousands of police and special forces last year at a stadium in the Chechen capital of Grozny and said the troops had pledged loyalty to Russia and to Mr Putin personally. “Kadyrov men”, members of another Chechen fighters’ group similar to the North battalion, also started appearing in eastern Ukraine last autumn. Mr Kadyrov’s past as a warlord and his highly personalised rule of Chechnya have created tension between the republic’s security forces and other parts of the security apparatus. Nemtsov, Putin and a climate of fear In 2013, Russian newspaper Novaya Gazeta reported how investigators of the Federal Security Bureau were outraged after the Federal Investigative Committee, a body that reports directly to Mr Putin, had released a group of men working for Mr Kadyrov whom the FSB had arrested for alleged kidnapping, extortion and torture in Moscow. Seasoned observers of the Russian security services say there are often struggles among competing groups of so-called siloviki, the men who made their careers in the security services. Despite this background, it remains unclear what role, if any, Mr Kadyrov plays in the Nemtsov case. But his public comments on the case have remind observers of one of Anna Politkovskaya’s most eye-catching stories. Following an interview with Mr Kadyrov in 2004 during which he boasted about his power and which left her terrified, Ms Politkovskaya wrote: “It is an old story, repeated many times in our history: The Kremlin fosters a baby dragon, which it then has to keep feeding to stop him from setting everything on fire.” After two Chechens were charged with the murder of Boris Nemtsov, one of the Russian opposition leader’s friends, Ilya Yashin, wrote on Twitter: “Our worst fears are coming true”. “The shooter will answer for it, but those who really ordered Nemtsov’s murder will go free.” Whatever they think of Nemtsov, after a spate of killings of politicians, lawyers, journalists and rights campaigners in the past 15 years, many Russians share Mr Yashin’s scepticism that the country’s legal system can bring the real killers to justice. Vladimir Putin assumed Russia’s presidency in 2000 vowing to create a “dictatorship of the law”, while Dmitry Medvedev, president from 2008 to 2012, pledged reforms to fight Russia’s “legal nihilism”. But lawyers and human rights experts warn that despite reforms on paper, Russia has made little progress in creating an independent legal system. Surveys have shown Russians still view “telephone justice” — the ability of senior officials to determine the outcome of cases, or order them opened in the first place — to be widespread. The problem’s roots lie in the country’s communist past. The Soviet Union considered separation of powers between the executive and the judiciary a “bourgeois” aberration. Judges saw their role as delivering convictions on the basis of charges brought by prosecutors. As well as inheriting that attitude, Russian judges remain relatively poorly paid, making them vulnerable to corruption and outside pressures. Lawyers representing opponents of the authorities, or attempting to probe official wrongdoing, have often found themselves subject to harassment, or even become targets themselves. Most notoriously, Sergei Magnitsky, a tax lawyer investigating a $230m tax fraud by interior ministry officials, was arrested and charged himself with tax evasion. After almost a year in pre-trial detention, when he was tortured through being denied treatment for gallstones and pancreatitis, he was beaten to death in a cell. However, instead of anyone being brought to justice either for his death or for the tax fraud, Magnitsky was convicted of tax fraud after his death — one of the few examples in history of a posthumous trial. It has not been lost on Russians that the Nemtsov suspects were charged in Moscow’s Basmanny court, a venue so infamous that it inspired the nickname “Basmanny justice” — meaning ordered by the Kremlin. The first trial of Mikhail Khodorkovsky, the former Yukos oil chief, was held there, resulting in an initial nine-year prison sentence on what were widely seen as politically-motivated fraud charges. Last weekhe Basmanny court also handled the case of Nadia Savchenko, a Ukrainian pilot who has been on hunger strike over what she says are trumped-up charges of being involved in killing two journalists in east Ukraine. Neil Buckley, London"https://www.ft.com/content/a2452730-c669-11e4-add0-00144feab7de"

 

Problem being - not exactly they can do what they want, they supposed to follow Federal Law, that supports no such prosecution. Problem being - nobody wants a new war in Chechnya, and it's government started abusing that mood in latest years. I am not sure, how exactly these tensions will be solved, but the very fact that some 'preachers' announced that "hunt" in Grozniy raises serious concerns. ISIL already tried, and not once, to establish it's presence in RF. It may take a serious campaign to teach chechens and dags that there are things more important than ethnic unity, and among these things - responsible election of republic representatives. No arguing that mainly Kadirov represents interests of chechens, and not federal interests. But that does not means he is a good choise for representative of republic in Federal Council.

I doubt there are any sort of 'concentration camps', likely victims of prosecution got moved all to same facility. I doubt that event will be able to go on without much of a public attention - as much as majority of federation citizens fine with chechens doing whatever they want to their fellow chechens inside of Chechnya - there are boundaries. And besides - at some point they have to learn - to point of having glowing letters carved on inside of their skulls - that they live in a secular state, not a theocracy, and that 'Law of Mountines' lived itself out long while ago.


As a matter of fact, the petition with demand of federal investigation of that prosecution already gathered over 295000 signs.
https://www.change.org/p/требуем-провести-расследование-массовых-расправ-и-убийств-в-чечне-chechen100

In case of a will to - you are welcome to sign it too. And, since the time when a petition just like that pushed abmudsman Astakhov in retirement I tend to have more optimistic approach towards petitions - to say the least, they are a good way of raising public awarness of issues, that country faces.

And if this issue will not be solved, the unlawful prosecution stopped, and responsible exposed - it may contribute to number of participants of rally, planned on 12 of June, yearly celebrated as federal holyday, anniversary of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decla..._Russian_Soviet_Federative_Socialist_Republic



Also, parallel petition about same issue:
https://www.change.org/p/hornet-gri...а-и-грабежи-гомосексуалов-в-россии/u/19985456

 

"I doubt there are any sort of 'concentration camps', likely victims of prosecution got moved all to same facility. I doubt that event will be able to go on without much of a public attention - as much as majority of federation citizens fine with chechens doing whatever they want to their fellow chechens inside of Chechnya - there are boundaries" so its independent, right? what when they kill outside, like in Nemtsov case?

 

It is not independent, it is a republic whithin the Federation, that is at current moment, unofficially, mostly undisturbed. Does not mean such state of things is going to go on forever.

If you wish to discuss case of Nemtsov - do this in specific thread for that.

 

Federica Mogherini met Lovrov today, and tells him about Kremlin responsibilities for lives of the Muscovite gays

http://echo.msk.ru/news/1969002-echo.html

 

"If you wish to discuss case of Nemtsov -" if you saw my links , you´d know that its the same story, Monopoly_on_violence in your ulus (Mongolian empire) . the fact is that Kadyrov could not be controlled, not FSB , not Putler, and what has left from the "red army" can control him or this thugs. with other words your ulus is done...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly_on_violence

my sources :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWCalSs87nA

 

Well, all right. Lavrov said it all right, "Russia is against any sort of citizen discrimination". It is an official position of the state, expressed by state's representative. It does not means, that discrimination cannot happen at all - it means that state disapproves it and takes measures against it.

Also, it is very charming that you can read articles in Russian. <3

 

I know that after second war in Chechnya our government does not violently enforces it's citizens to follow Federal Law. Basically that was done on condition of them not creating problems for Federation, which, evidently, they cannot guarantee. Obviously situation is complicated and I am sure, efforts are taken to solve it delicately and prevent further outbreaks of violence.

In understand, that you passionately approve idea of ME AND MY FELLOW CITIZENS DYING in a war among themselves, but you should understand, that people are not going to start killing each other just because you want them to.

 

why is Russia soo afraid of homosexuals?

do they fear their butts will be violated?

LOL!!!!

 

Because homosexuality is a virus. If you look at the Western society, you will see that the Western society in a few years Tolerant attitude towards homosexuals has turned into a society of homosexuals.
This is especially pronounced among Western politicians. For example, several recent US presidents are fagots. Maybe they are not gay, but the fagots are 100%. The same can be said about the senators, and about the Western media.
Russians do not want this in their country because Russia is the freest and most peaceful country in the world.

 

I think you make a good point there. The only reason you would care if a part of Russia acted in a particular way would be if it went against your norms. If you felt it was bad for gays to be beaten up, rounded up, tortured, held in detention centres and more and more frequently killed. Only if Russia felt it was wrong to treat gays that way would it see this as something to make a fuss about. The Journalist who reported this in Russia has been forced to flee Russia following threats to her life.

Journalist Who Exposed Chechnya’s Anti-Gay Horrors Flees Russia, Says Abuse Continues

I would suggest to you that the reason why you think 'why should we care about it?' is because Russia itself is moving in the same direction.

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/so...acks-russian-gays-revealed-documentary-n22751

Obviously if Russia does not prosecute violence against the LGBT community in Russia, it is hardly going to be bothered about same in Chechyna even if on an official level - one step ahead of Russia

 

As if a macho culture like the Chechens would be expected to celebrate gayness?

 

indeed. Or a macho culture like Russia.

 

they need the pogroms in order to keep this dying empire together, they need internal enemies , 100 years ago they targeted the Jews today, gays

"The term "pogrom" in the meaning of large-scale, targeted, and repeated anti-Jewish rioting, saw its first use in the 19th century, in reference to the anti-Jewish pogroms in the Russian Empire. Pogroms began occurring after the Russian Empire, which previously had very few Jews, acquired territories with large Jewish populations during 1791–1835. These territories were designated "the Pale of Settlement" by the Russian government, within which Jews were reluctantly permitted to live, and it was within them that the pogroms largely took place. Most Jews were forbidden from moving to other parts of the Empire, unless they converted to the Russian Orthodox state religion."

 

whats so funny? people hunted down like the wild animals ? who like in the own country like Anna Frank did under nazi occupation ?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Declaration_of_Human_Rights

 

sure, in Muscovite prisons its a normal , just look at population Muscovite prisons , in Muscovy its a daily live

 

She was a Jew, and unlike homosexuality, being Jewish isn't a lifestyle choice - see the difference?

 

"Lavrov said it all right, "Russia is against any sort of citizen discrimination"." said , LOL? whats about state acts of protection , according your Muscovite "law"?

 

"lifestyle choice", really? LOL

 

It's a lifestyle choice in my book, and if a children's cartoon says differently it doesn't change my mind. I don't watch videos unless the poster gives some idea of what it's about and how long it is.

 

Don't get drammatic, tolerance towards various sexual orientations does not affects number of ******s in government. Look at Milonov - for Christ's sake, man seriously argued for scrapping all 100 rubles bill and replacing them because he saw a diсk on the picture on it. 148000000+ people daily use these banknotes, and only he out of all citizens of this giant, magnificent country we have, saw there a pinus. And got seriously concerned, to point of trying to push a lawproject in Duma. And Mizulina - sorry, if woman says she approves husband beating wife as an 'educational' measure - she is a pervert in my book, and pretty much a dangerous pervert that needs to visit a yellow house for examination. And both - are zealous fighters against homosexuals. Between people who have weird sex acts and people who make dangerous law acts - I choose first ones, especially considering nobody would force me to personally tolerate them if I do not want to - while decidions of these pedics are to be accepted by me if they get approved by rest of Duma.

 

What about it not being your bloody business, how MY country's laws work during MY lifetime? Somehow we can manage ourselves without some foreign pseudo-liberal chauvinistic shmuck telling us what to do.

Wanna participate - go and sign the petition, or get citizenship and participate in the next electoral voting.

 

"What about it not being your bloody business,"

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