Saying that a Higher Power can't exist because there's no evidence for it

...would be like saying that aliens can't exist, because there's no current evidence for it.

 

Saying that a higher power does exist when there is no evidence for it...

would be like saying that aliens exist when there is no evidence for it.

 

Actually, that would be a straw man argument. Good job.

 

Good thing no one is saying that, then. What they are saying is that without evidence, it doesn't make sense to believe in, and indeed structure your life around the supposed wishes of such a power.

 

No evidence is one biggie. Another is the severe unlikelihood of the claim based on the facts at hand.

 

Must we really re-engage the 2.c. definition of 'fact'? Surely by now you know the validity of that definition?
www.thefreedictionary.com/fact

 

You are adopting an agnostic argument, hopefully you realize that the argument posted here does not reflect a gnostic theistic position.

 

I thought there has been evidence of aliens? At least UFOs.

 

Where, and when?

 

That's not entirely true. Some scientists believe there are many millions of planets out there with the same ability to sustain life as the earth does; they reach these kinds of ideas by means of estimation, not by reading ancient (*)(*)(*)(*)ing stories.
We don't have anything to compare a God to, and no way to search for one using scientific means, and all the info we've got on this God are self-conflicting old fables that differ based upon geography; most religious people would say that this is because he likes to play this bull(*)(*)(*)(*) game where he wants people to arbitrarily believe in him even though he won't flash his ass before anyone but ancient savages. Historically the things mankind used to explain or "prove" the existence of God have vanished before natural evidence. The origin of the universe and what happens after death are really the only things left that God's got going for his tired ass these days and he's losing his grip on both of those. It's because saying that something happened due to supernatural reasons will never fly, there will always be a rational explain for the way things are; it just takes longer to figure it out hard way than than to say "Jeezus did it praise teh lard." Like the Bible says, no man has seen the "heavenly storehouses laden with snow."

 

Nothing but ghost stories. It's absolutely possible aliens exist. In fact it's extremely probable given that there are roughly 6 sextrillion planets in the known universe. One of them must be like Earth.

However in our current knowledge of physics we can't even begin to phathom a way to travel to other star systems within a lifetime. Let alone to the nearest Earth like planet. The most Earth like planet we've discovered so far is an amazing 600 light years away! That means traveling at the speed of light (Which is the fastest we have any idea how to travel) it would take 600 years to get there!

So the idea of UFOs is pretty far fetched if you ask me. Because we literally have no known way of traveling that much of a distance within a lifetime.

Somewhere out there there is likely a species just as smart or smarter than us. And they are likely just as alone and isolated in the universe as we are. No way of ever meeting us. Sad really...

 

I agree. However, believing that a higher power exists despite lack of evidence would be like saying that aliens do (not can) exist despite lack of evidence.

I notice that you've changed the already ambiguously defined "God" for an even broader concept, a "higher power". I believe there are people who can beat me at any subject, there might even be people who can beat me in every subject. I believe there is a government which possesses the power to judge me and any person and put me in jail, in fact, I believe there are many. Aliens might actually be a higher power as far as I'm concerned.

Let's say for argument's sake that we add constraints that would make this thread fit in the religion section. Then the evidence of this higher power and aliens are different.

An alien race would have the same probabilities of existing as the human race. True, the anthropomorphic principle states that if the chances of life appearing were enough for exactly one race, then we would be it, but that contribution to the logic should be small.

A higher power, as I assume you define it, would have a different set of rules, most of which would be completely defined by the definition of the higher power in question, but for instance, omnipotence would be very hard to justify.

 

This is true. Is it directed at anyone in particular? I'm sure there must be some people who have claimed that god CAN'T exist, but I haven't seen any of them on this forum.

 

only if we had Gods on earth, then we could say it was likely there was more Gods out there, I mean if one exists many could exist right?

I would not doubt though if there is some alien life out there so much more advanced then us, that if they came here some would see their technology as magic and claim them Gods

could we of been visited by aliens in the past, be more likely then a God existing would it not?


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Who says that there isn't a higher power? Gravity is a higher power , a black hole can swallow an entire galaxy with trillions of people including their gods .

 

First define the higher power, and then we can discuss the possibility of it's existence.

If your definition involves contradiction, then logic rules out it's existence.
If you want to ditch logic, anything goes including God being a ham sandwich (Dennett).

If your notion is beyond definition, then what do you mean when you utter the sound "Gawd"?

If your higher power is all all-good, all-powerful and all-knowing, then why the prevalence of evil including natural disasters?

If your God is personal, then why is the universe so indifferent to us?

If this power is human-like, then why is nature so alien?

If the higher power involves itself in human affairs, would there be any noticeable difference if it did not?

 

By this logic which is valid basing your life around the belief that God does exist without any evidence for it would be like basing your life around the belief that aliens do without any evidence for it.

Why would anybody do either one?

 

The ramblings of simply thought processes is really quite amazing.

What is being compared is the possibility of other physical life forms (aliens) with non-physical (meta-physical) life forms (e.g. God) and there is a fundamental difference. We have evidence of physical life forms that aliens would represent but there is no evidence of non-physical (metaphysical) life forms.

Mathmatically probablitity indicates that the odds are overwhelming when it comes to the probability of alien life existing on other planets because life exists on Earth. Mathmatical probability of a non-physical (meta-physical) entity existing are virtually nil because there is no evidence of such an entity ever existing.

Of course a "Higher Power" really carries a broad definition because aliens might very well be a "Higher Power" when compared to man. I assume that it's referring to "God" in its usage in the OP.

 

What evidence and where is that evidence located? Is there a link to a website or database that would display that evidence for all to see?

Probabilities are not a certainty. You are living in a delusional world if you are evaluating everything in life on a probability. Perhaps you should move to Vegas and live the real life of probabilities... who knows,,, you might end up rich.

A higher power might be referring to nuclear fision in comparison to a Duracell 1.5 AA battery.

 

Point me to an atheist that says that it is impossible for a god to exist.

 

When a person looks in the mirror they will probably see the reflection of a life form. Whether it's an intelligent life form could be debateable (sorry, I couldn't resist that line).

The probability that physical life exists is 100% because physical life already exists on Earth. The only "probability" being calcuated is whether it exists on other planets in the universe. Because of the mathmatical probability of life sustaining planets which is literally a certainty given the number of estimated planets in the hundreds of billions of galaxies, the odds of life existing on other planets is a virtual certainty as well.

The probability of non-physical (meta-physical) entities existing is very small because there is absolutely no evidence of any ever existing in our universe. If they do exist they are more likely to exist in a different universe than this one due to the lack of evidence. Without any existance ever being documented the equation starts at close to absolute zero in calculating the probability of existance and any number multiplied by zero equals zero.

True which is why I mentioned the fact that we might someday meet aliens that are a "higher power" than we are. I don't believe that was the context of the word usage though.

 

I see what you mean.

It would be better to state "The probability that physical life on earth exists is 100% because physical life already exists on Earth." By stating it in the way I have described, eliminates the possibility of that probability reaching beyond what is KNOWN.

True to point.

I see above a very interesting mix of words imparting differing ideas about the subject matter. There is mentioned certainty, literal certainty, virtual certainty, estimated.... conflicting terms that can lead one to see that in actuality there is a strong degree of 'uncertainty' with what you are attempting to promote.

'virtual': vir·tu·al (vûrch-l)
adj.
1. Existing or resulting in essence or effect though not in actual fact, form, or name: the virtual extinction of the buffalo.
2. Existing in the mind, especially as a product of the imagination. Used in literary criticism of a text.
3. Computer Science Created, simulated, or carried on by means of a computer or computer network: virtual conversations in a chatroom."

'certainty': cer·tain·ty (sûrtn-t)
n. pl. cer·tain·ties
1. The fact, quality, or state of being certain: the certainty of death.
2. Something that is clearly established or assured: "On the field of battle there are no certainties" (Tom Clancy)."

Here we go again on that subject of 'evidence' and what constitutes evidence. I do believe that there was a previous discussion on 'what is the religious meaning of 'evidence''. You see, there seems to be a major conflict between the scientific community and the theistic community as to what constitutes 'evidence'. While the scientific community brags about dealing with fact, one of the very definitions of 'fact' enhances the religious meaning of 'evidence'. So, in short, you continue on with mathematical probabilities (which prove nothing as nothing is proven until the proof has manifested). Once the proof has manifested, then it is no longer a probability. So uncertain are you about the probabilities, you 'estimate' the number of suspected planets in the galaxies... you turn to guess work.

 

Go away.

No one wants to debate definitions with you.

Take your semantic bull(*)(*)(*)(*) elsewhere.

 

I note that the OP just started the thread and has not visited since. Clearly an important issue for him.