Should we ban Indonesia as a holiday destination?

I LOVE that!

 

With all due respect D&D you didn't address either of my questions regarding the ten thousand years of history supporting seperate countries or the seperation of 257 modern countries "IF" multiculturalism works? If you are advocating that multiculturalism only pertains to food, then doesn't that open up other questions? Besides a difference in food and an exchange of different cultural ideas, what is multiculturalism? Please show me how/where multiculturalism has worked in Australia?

I agree that many Australians are willing to accept and embrace multiculturalism, but are some people coming to Australia "also" willing to accept and embrace multiculturalism? The specific enclaves and "ghetto's" of certain majority ethnic groups are suggesting they don't want to accept nor embrace Australian multiculturalism.

 

Hi culldav

I think you'll find that multiculturalism has been around ever since civilisation started, ofcourse maybe in not so great a diversity as today but it was there and its nothing new.

Today if you look at most civilised countries most have multiculturalism.

We are all humans whether black white red yellow or whatever, we can all share and learn from each other which in books is a wonderful thing and certainely makes life more enjoyable.

I think the grouping together of migrants in a new country isn't all that strange at all, picture yourself going overseas if you find expats i'm sure you would hang around with them.

If you remember when the italians and then the greeks come out here in the begining they would have found it hard because they didn't know the lingo so they grouped together dare say they would have coped abit along the way from us.

Anyway they and their children have assimilated into the Australian way of life just fine and i think this will be the way of it with other migrants as well.

At work we have Indians, Chinesse, Europeans and more and i can honestly say its a great environment.

Multiculturalism is more than food and traditions its about sharing ideas with people from all walks of life.

People from here go overseas in search of such adventures and we have them here in our back yard.

 

I reckon a lot of them have been set up by Asians who use unsuspecting foreigners as mules.

 

Remember Corby was taking drugs in. I don't think she meant to. I believe she knew she was muling these drugs but the destination wasn't Bali. Someone forgot to do their job here in Australia and the drugs went all the way with her to Bali.

The old set up excuse would be fine if she didn't already have form here in. Australia for drug possesion. The whole family are rat(*)(*)(*)(*). Bad eggs the lot of them.

 

Just because her brother and father were apparently drug dealers doesn't mean she was involved. I think she was either set up by someone working at the airport that day, or her brother James used her as a drug mule without her knowing.

 

Mak your ability to see good in everyone is admirable, don't lose it. I think she knew exactly what was happening, she just didn't expect the drugs to still be there when she got to Bali. Mak she had form for possesion when she was younger, she was not new to the drug world.

She has paid a very high price for her stupidity, however she still has her life and she can thank a lenient judge and an Indonesian government who at the time was trying to strengthen its ties with Australia. By Indonesian law she may well of been sentenced to death.

Mak as much as I feel for her, she put herself in that position, and she has paid for it with her mental health. She will have one hell of a story when she gets a chance to tell it.

 

If I had to go there for some reason it would be without luggage to be tampered with, buy what I need after getting there & leave it to some charity before coming home. If I saw something I wanted to keep I would order it after getting back to Australia.

 

What the -hell- are you talking about? Race != Nationalism. Your post was blatantly racist, and this has nothing to do with the OP. If you don't want to go to Indonesia, don't go.

"Mongrelised", wow, another ridiculously stupid racist term. Google "Liberal Nationalism".

 

Either you are an (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*) Australian who visited Indonesia, of which there are many so your absurd generalizing is not totally unwarranted, or you are just incredibly ignorant. A lot of indonesians are awesome people and nowhere near as quick to judge and generalize as you are. Sure, a lot of people in Kuta (and any asian city really) see you as a walking wallet but that's how they make a living and once you break past that barrier you would feel ashamed of yourself for thinking as you do. Obnoxious Australians are not well liked, sure, but I met lots of great Indonesians when I went there and even stayed with a family for a lot of the time (they fed me twice a day, let me sleep and wouldn't accept my money until I forced it on them toward the end of my stay). Nowhere was I made to feel uncomfortable and if I did, I would simply smile and 99% of the time I would get a big grin right back at me, which is more than I can say for my fellow aussies. I also had a couple of other guys I got to know invite me to come stay in their villages. These guys weren't trying to sell me anything. I would just be friendly, chat and make sure not to be an ignorant (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*). ...Once you leave the cities it gets even better. On one of the Gilli islands I would just ride around with my guitar and the locals would constantly get me to come jam with them and wouldn't heckle me at all to buy things. They simply wanted to jam, hang out and have a good time.

Honestly, it just sounds like you are a bad person that nobody wanted to party with.

Yeah, every single foreigner that comes to Australia has the specific intention of not fitting in /sarcasm....I pity ignorant fools like yourself. Honestly, have you ever even spoke with an immigrant? I can tell you right now you are DEAD wrong. There is no and ifs or buts, it is simply reality. The only person that has been hoodwinked here is you.

 

I adequate my life’s journey to be one of intellectual advancement; not just sitting around strumming a guitar singing “Kum Ba Yar” and reverting back to the naivety of an 8 year old.

I’m please you had a positive experience, but just because you put your finger in the fire and didn’t get burnt, doesn’t necessarily mean that will happen the second time around.

I’m a trusting soul at best, but not to a fault, and understand umanity is not ready for utopia yet!!

 

LOL. Intellectual advancement and yet all you seem capable of in this thread are absurd generalizations and logical fallacies...Such as the false dichotomy you created about playing guitar and being an intellectual and the generalization you made about myself. I say one thing about playing guitar and suddenly you think all I do is 'sit around singing kum ba ya and reverting to the naivety of an 8 year old'? Give me a break! Maybe for you its impossible to pursue art as well as intellectual advancement but don't assume the rest of us are quite as feeble minded. It's ironic actually, a real intellectual would never make such a fallacious and absurd statement. Can you say 'self-pwn'?

And nowhere did I say that all indonesians are good people as that is as absurd as your statement that all indonesians don't like us. I simply pointed out how incredibly wrong you were when you said "Indonesians don't like us" as that is a proven statement from ignorance...Also, I've had bad experiences as well as good experiences in my travels. I've been burned and I've had great times. People from Asian countries and African countries are just like anyone else. Hell, I was partying with a couple of Nigerians the other night and they were cool as. Just like Australia you get bad people, good people and everything in between. The key is not to make absurd generalizations based on a small number of experiences.

 

If the Indonesian Government donated $500million to build schools for Aussies kids, and gave Australians $500million every year in free financial aid; I too could give them a welcoming smile, and sing “Kum Ba Ya” with them - doesn’t necessarily mean like them though. Anyone is capable of putting on a fake smile, a fake face and kiss arse when it suits!!

Besides the ‘warm fuzzy feeling’ of smiles and singing Kum Ba Ya, just how have Indonesians showed Australians they like them?

The Tsunami that devastated Indonesia: Australians privately donated $1billion dollars to help, and our government donated another $billion. When Australia was devastated by floods how much did the Indonesian Government donate to Australia. An insulting $1million dollars. How much did the Indonesian people privately donate - $0.

I suppose you will tell me “every” Indonesian is poor and could not afford to donate ‘any’ money - right? But there're our friend you claim!! Real friends cannot afford 20c; 50c; $1 -

LOL LOL LOL

 

So you think the Indos that don't try and sell you anything, let you live with them for free, invite you back to their remote villages to meet their families and the ones that just want to hang out and play music are all scheming just so our government keeps funding them? LOL!! Cynicism is necessary overseas but you have actually taken it to the point of retardation.

I'm amazed that you can't grasp the concept that foreigners are just like Australians in that there are good people, bad people and everything in between. You have overgeneralized and assumed they are all bad, scheming folk who just want our money. It's both hilarious and incredibly sad.

Also, they've shown they liked them through individual acts of kindness, not through how much money their government gives us. Just because you were burned overseas doesn't mean it's like that for everybody. Take your own advice "I’m please you had a positive experience, but just because you put your finger in the fire and didn’t get burnt, doesn’t necessarily mean that will happen the second time around. " and flip it. Just because you got burned doesn't necessarily mean that will happen the second time around. The key is not to generalize based on a small number of experiences. Get out there and experience life man! Don't cower away from it!

Not every indonesian is poor, no, I'm not about to make moronic generalizations like you have been, although I will say judging an entire country and it's every individual person based on how much money they give your government is just pathetic.

Apparently you don't know what a friend is either and are resorting to more absurd generalizations. Here's a hint, a real friend is not somebody you have never met that lives in a foreign country. A friend is somebody you have personally connected with and personally trust.. To generalize and say that all Indonesians are our friends is as stupid as saying all Indonesians don't like us...Although that should be obvious to anybody with any shred of common sense.

 

Indonesia with a population of: 239,187,937 people, and not "one of them" personally felt enough compassion and friendship to donate 20 cents to help the flood victims of Australia? So much for your theory on friendship!! You want make excuses for the bad, inappropriate behaviour of a countries population based on one positive experience with one family sitting around a camp fire singing Kum Ba Ya, then that's your prerogative, but don't urinate on my leg and try to convince me its raining with your show boating.

A population of 239,187,937, and not one of them had the decency to donate a miserable 1c to help out their Australian "friends" and neighbours devastated by floods. There's an old adage regarding true friendship: "actions speak louder than words".

Ever contact that Indonesian family you stayed with and ask them why they didn't donate 20 cents; 50 cents to the Australian flood victims? Ever ask them why "no one" in Indonesia donated 1 cent to help Australian flood victims, or help out the families of the people who lost their lives as a result of the floods?

Indonesians are not the only people who die in natural disasters, but they are always the first in line to cry poor mouth and accept free financial aid donations, but when it comes time to reciprocate, they never give anything in return.

 

Indonesian tsunami of 2004 killed over 230,000 people, since then there have been several more quakes killing thousands, and a volcano eruption killing hundreds. They still have not fully recovered from that disaster. Queensland floods of 2010-11, killed 35 people. And Australia has about 10 times the wealth per capita of Indonesia, and we had no trouble raising the money to deal with the floods ourselves in an extremely short time. Though anyway, I'm sure you cannot back up your claim that no Indonesian gave money to any victim of our floods.

 

besides the paltry insulting $1million all Australians received from the Indo Government, I have not heard of any private donations coming from Indonesian people? certainly "noting" searchable on Google about the topic.

Stop making excuses for their bad behaviour towards us; everyone could spare 20 cents. What about middle class Indonesians - what happened to them putting their hands in their pockets?

 

So, the Indonesian government gave us $1 million, and you cannot provide any evidence to your claim that no Indonesian privately donated money to Australian flood victims.

 

Don't be such a penis brain!!

 

To be blunt and succinct, your argument falls flat on it's face as friendship is not based on money like you seem to think. I didn't give money to Indonesia or anyone over there when they had a natural disaster, does that mean I dislike all Indonesians? Nope. If your friends in Australia didn't give you money when you needed it for whatever reason would you draw the conclusion they don't like you? If yes is your answer then you really need to reassess your life. Although I think you need to already judging by your posts in this thread.

Also, I've made it crystal clear my positive experiences were not with a single family. Please try to keep up.

EDIT: Was also going to say something much along the lines of Ziggy's post at the top of this page but he was a step ahead and probably said it better than I could anyway. Good post.

 

You have faced your mortality and this is your crusade - more power to ya!! Bit hard to find rocking horse shyte when it doesn't exits; same applies to donated Indonesian money for Australian flood victims, but you can both still play the game if you want. LOL

 

Since we have already established money is not a determining factor in friendship and Ziggy has pointed out the huge differences in Australian natural disasters/recovery and Indonesian natural disasters/recovery, why are you still pushing this dead end argument? Do you have anything to offer in refutation or are you just going to bleat mindlessly until we grow bored?

On a slightly related note...Why can people like culldav never man up and admit when they were wrong? Do they have no integrity whatsoever or are they just victims of their own monstrous egos?

 

This is why Australia is so lenient on Indonesian people smugglers. Its because they make money from us. Australia gives them aid when they need it, and we need to stay on their good side so we are lenient on them with the people smugglers.

 

That doesn't make any sense. They would be the ones wanting to stay on our good side in your scenario.

 

If we offended Indonesia, they'd be more likely to treat our people like crap.