Sowell: Who Shut Down the Government? (great read)

That's what the Repub Senators and Congresspeople did and are doing! They are blocking the funding, and they have every right to do so with their votes. What's weird is the Dems coming out and saying, "Oh no you don't, you will vote to fund everything the pres wants with this law, or else!". I mean, can we get a freakin hostage negotiator on here to teach these people who has what leverage here?

That 3 yr old piece of legislation that is touted as the savior of healthcare in this nation, has never been passed in a budget. That's what this is all about, the Dems never did have the votes to fund this thing.

 

Sure, but then take responsibility for it and stop with the finger pointing idiocy.

The GOP doesn't have the leverage, only the political tactics of the minority party. If ACA is/was/will be a nation killer, then the right way to approach this would have been to win seats, but the GOP messed up so bad the last time they lost the ability to get votes and now despite that they're holding some federal agencies and employees hostage to accomplish an agenda they couldn't get the votes for...

ACA is a piece of garbage {insert long conversation here about health care in the USA}, but it was passed and if you wanted to oppose it the time isn't now, it was 3 years ago... where were the votes? Oh right..., the GOP has been shoving people away ever since the Tea Party took control. Good luck with the radical fringe minority.

 

Isn't it Obama, Reid and the Senate that has blocked the Congressional funding by not negotiating.?

 

Yes. All they had to do was fund everything, and then sit down and discuss the merits of delaying the personal mandate. But the one year delay, to hold off punishing the uninsured for not getting health care insurance before the deadline, was characterized as terrorism, hostage taking, rape, wife beating, and equal to human slavery.

According to 0bama and the dems, we have anywhere from 30 million, to 48 million uninsured, and all of them have until March 31st to get insured thru the health care exchanges, or be punished. So why can't we give them a one year break in the first year? It's not as if the exchanges are even working yet, and the laws is confusing as hell.

 

What a load of bull(*)(*)(*)(*). The TeaPublicans had the opportunity to participate in the health care debate 6 years ago. What did they do?...let's see...they stomped their feet, pouted and demanded over 200 amendments to the ACA. The got everyone of those amendments and then didn't vote for the ACA.

They had their chance and lost. Too bad, so sad.

The gov shutdown is the fault of just one person and one person only, Captn Orange. If the Boehner HAD ANY BALLS, OR IF HE WAS HONEST... he would let the vote happen...but he can't because of the mentally delusional party his party that he is afraid to (*)(*)(*)(*) off.

Thanks for nothing.

 

I love that this thread, with it's OP where Sowell just makes up things that aren't in the constitution, and bases his argument on pure fantasy.
And his fanboys don't even notice that he's flat out wrong......

 

Yeah, it's so silly. Everyone knows the president writes his own laws, he alone decides which laws will apply to which citizens, and which citizens can ignore them. In fact, statutory laws are only a basic outline, its the president who chooses how to mold and shape them to suit his own personal, ideological and political desires.

 

Leave the Government that cannot accomplish anything in charge of the Healthcare business?

If you want free healthcare then pass a law that gives you free healthcare ... If you want another Ponzi Scheme stick with the ACA.
The democrats try to wrap it all up in cute little catch phrases so the American people think they are helping someone out ... Instead of everyone getting screwed.

Supporting the ACA in any shape or form is like taking a dump in a paper sack ... tying it all up with a bow ... Then selling it as air freshener.



Cajun Negotiating Team ...

The Democrats gave us the ACA ... Lack of a budget that requires a Continuing Resolution ... And the Sequester we are still under because they failed to meet the obligations of their last agreement.
They are not solely responsible for shutting down the government ... They are responsible for everything that makes it possible and appealing to do so.

 

How exactly do we follow it? 3k pages spawning 10k's more pages of regulation and govt bs. I'll never know how to follow this law; I will always need to be told how to follow this law by someone. Why don't they reinstate benefits, and when they get their website fixed, and we can actually follow this law, then cut everyone's benefits until everyone agrees with funding this law? It's the least they could do if they are going to cut other funds in order to negotiate funding for this law, that they wait until the law is even possible to comply with.

What do you mean nothing to negotiate? Wth is this thing? Can we negotiate some simplicity at least?

And aside from the ability to comply with the law, let's talk about the meaning of the mandate: "The ACA is the law, and you are to follow it, end of story". Does that mean Congress will never have the ability to negotiate anything regarding the ACA and different levels of funding? Are they not permitted to adjust any of its provisions in any way? Forever, or until repeal?

I also have a problem with the last part: "end of story". As in, the story did not end when ACA was passed. The POTUS has unilaterally changed the law on numerous occasions. No one else can do anything to change the law, and in fact, the left claims that they can't even negotiate it. Nothing will be negotiated; it has been stated repeatedly by Dems and POTUS. So 1 person has the ability to adjust this law in any way? That's the way it seems.

 

Establishment Republicans want big government as much as the Democrats. Conservatives want constitutionally limited government.
This really is no longer about shutting down the government. Obama used that tactic to get the narrative going for his real aim. In the next few days the Republicans will capitulate and give Obama what he wants. At that point the nation is over. We will have a dictator, Barrack Hussein Obama. His goal is to breach the Constitution's firewall by threatening to default if the Republicans do not capitulate. Instead of standing up to him and then impeaching him they will capitulate.

So we have just one more chance to restore the nation. There may not be enough time as we are already living in a tyranny. But we still have to fight. Article V is the last remaining option.

 

When did you, personally, decide to throw the Constitution in the garbage can? Why do you so eagerly support the establishment of a dictatorship? Do you believe you can escape the fate your are creating for the rest of us?

 

The ACA is not even really a law anymore. The way the congress allows 0bama to play around with it, no one knows which parts he is ignoring and which parts he is enforcing.

0bama is not making any changes to the law, if you or i read the law, it would be completely unchanged, the employer mandate and personal verification of information and health insurance caps are all still there. 0bama has just ordered his admin appointees to simply not enforce whole sections of the law. The rule of law does not exist under this president, where statutory tax laws can be ignored, waived for certain lucky individuals, while other citizens are required to obey the same exact law.

 

I'm not willing to go as far as you are. First, I don't think Obama has a desire to be a dictator. Second, I don't think it's the end of the nation. Vets threw the barricades in front of the White House because their memorials were closed. I doubt that they would stand by tyranny. Third, it is not the last chance. Even if funded and implemented, I don't think ACA would destroy the nation. It might, it might not. I'm not going to pretend to know. I just attack other people who pretend to know. But I can see this going before SCOTUS again, after implementation. And it will be based on violations of 14th equal protection. It's just right now, I don't think anyone has standing to bring it. So it's not necessarily the last chance, if the law turns out to have negative effects.

 

So I see the judge granted your divorce from reality....

There is no budget, because Republicans have refused to negotiate a budget, since it would have interfered with the plans they made to shut down the government and threaten default to force the end of ObamaCare, before it could take full effect and become way too popular to ever repeal.

 

0bama has his administrative agencies implementing laws and policies for laws the congress refused to pass, he wants the power to change our laws on the fly, as he sees fit, the power to raise the debt on his own, and to declare war, and wage war all on his own, he fires and hires CEOs for billion dollar corporations. I don't see a whole lot left out here.

 

The federal budget and the debt ceiling are two very important issues. The Republicans passed a budget, and then Reid sabotaged it in the Senate by adding the debt ceiling increase to it, and demanding the House accept it and move to a conference committee.

The full House needs to be involved in voting on the debt ceiling, not just a handful of members. The Senate knows the House would not agree to something that absurd.The senate, under Reid did not pass a budget in 2009, 2010, 2011 or 2012, then pulled this stunt in 2013

 

Wow. Did you actually pay attention to the process and the hearings surrounding the creation of the ACA? Did you happen to notice the one party who didn't want to do ANYTHING for the citizens of the US as they demanded corp friendly amendments to the ACA and then proceeded to do everything they could to undermine the ACA?

While the ACA is far (very far) from perfect, it's a much needed step in the right direction. Why is it my tax dollars can be put to use to pay for bombs, military, corp welfare but, I we can't use it to fund health care for our citizens?

 

He has said over and over again that he would fundamentally transform the nation. He used the IRS to suppress the conservative vote and got himself re-elected. And now he is destroying an essential portion of our Constitution. He and the utterly despickable Democrats have threatened the nation with default unless he gets his way. And the Republicans are going to cave and let him. He will be our Adolph.

They did their part. Do you really expect 90 year olds to fight tyranny? This is a job for the generation that comes behind me. But I will be in this fight.

The end of the nation comes when the president can do whatever he wants. It has to do with electing to bully the cowed establishment Republicans into submission.

ACA will destroy the last vestiges of will in this nation. We will be worse off than subjects in the former Soviet Union. The government will know everything about every one of us. Imagine a government that has a complete understanding of your finances, your medical history, your friends, contacts, acquaintances...do you really believe anyone will oppose an all powerful oppressive government?

 

You cannot say the Republicans (alone) refused the budget when no one ... Not a single Congress member ... Voted for the budget presented by President Obama.

It finished 99-0 against in the Senate ... And 414-0 against in the House.*

The Continuing Resolution is the method by which the Democrats left the door open for the Republican House to do what it is doing.
I didn't say that Democrats were solely to blame ... I said they made it possible and appealing.

Nothing in House Resolution 59 puts an end to the ACA anyway ... The House cannot put an end to the ACA ... Get your facts straight, and put down the Kool-Aid.




*Senate ... http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/senate/227857-senate-rejects-obama-budget-in-99-0-vote/
*House ... http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/03/28/gop-run-house-easily-rejects-obama-budget/

 

If you want to fund health care for your neighbors by all means pull out your wallet and do so. Your position is immoral and unconstitutional. It is immpral because you are making a claim upon my life and my liberty for the benefit of individuals I do not know. It is unconstitutional because there is no enumerated power that allows it.

We are living under a tyranny now. We have to end it.

 

Wow ... You like it and that is cool.
Too bad we all have to deal with it ... Instead of just the people that like it ... Because I personally think it sucks.
I paid attention ... I know who voted for it.

Mary Landrieu one of the Senators from Louisiana agreed to support the PPA-ACA with an agreement for $200 million in addition federal Louisiana Medicaid funds (maybe you remember it called the "Louisiana Purchase").
Senator Landrieu forgot she was dealing with her fellow Democrats ... And was screwed out of the funding they agreed on ... Sounds familiar, because you just cannot trust those Democrats.

Senator Vitter from Louisiana made the proposal that the Continuing Resolution be passed with only the exemptions and subsidies for Congress left out.
He wants to make Congress use the Government Insurance under ACA ... without any special treatment or add-ons from the President.

 

You consider giving Democrats and Obama "Everything" they're asking for and then sitting down to negotiate a good mediation point? Where I come from you can ask all you want for "Everything" now we can debate on what you can get. It's like a hoe asking a million and then negotiating the final price at $50.00. Not that I'm claiming that Obama and the Democrats are like hoes with ideas of grandeur.

Then there's Obamacare and computer land. Not only is Obama pushing his healthcare plan down the throats of 300 million Americans, whether rich, middleclass or poor, they can't even apply for the gov't insurance because the computer program doesn't work. I don't believe that computer access with be available until after January 2014. Back to the 30 or 40 million without health insurance. Do you really believe in your heart that Obamacare will solve this problem? I think not.

 

Just to be clear, what are the Democrats asking for that is objectionable?
Demanding for a law to be repealed is not reasonable - which seems to be the Republican demand... and raising the debt ceiling has been done 42 times since 1980, primarily under Republican Presidents. Why should the President need to negotiate with Congress over this, especially a Congress who have very clearly chosen to obstruct everything for his entire administration?


As for the "computer land" situation, the fact that a site crashes because so many people attempt to sign up at once isn't a sign that the program will be unpopular...

 

Yeah...tort reform....you mean big corporate insurance that the workers can't sue them for anything. Just great. You got cancer from breathing the air in our toxic generators spewing inside our facilities? Tough. You can't sue us, so, work, and enjoy your cancer smoke, or get fired. Yeah....really great tweak you got there, sport.

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The Patriot Act is the controlling document today, making the Constitution, quite irrelevant.

 

Which we are constantly in a state of.

Any budget the Senate passes must go to the House where they provide one of their own. Then it goes to a joint committee for the final version that goes to the President. Getting Republicans and Democrats to agree on anything in the Senate is hard enough, but you should understand that anything that goes to the House would be as a result of an agreement between the two parties. The House which is controlled by the Republicans will not agree with anything that Democrats have their name on. It's an ideological thing for them. Since they control the purse strings, we're stuck. The only solution is for Boehner to get together with Pelosi and get a majority in the House made up of Dems and Repubs that would form a majority to pass anything. That puts Boehner at risk of losing his job. So the question for the Speaker is what is more important; being the Speaker for about 40 radicals in the House, or the People of the United States?

We're in a final countdown right now with the Debt Ceiling. Our government is shut down, and we're on the verge of default. We're now on Negative credit rating watch by Fitch. World markets are watching what' we're going. The stock market closed down 100 points. If we default, the shutdown will just be the beginning. We'll be headed into a far more serious recession than 08. The United States will become a dead beat nation for the first time in our history. I think you should understand that the intentions of the group that is doing this is to completely wreck the economy of the US. They came to congress to take down the government of this country, and they cannot be reasoned with. They hate democracy and at least one poster here has openly stated that. So the democratic process means nothing to them. What they can't get through the democratic process, they intend to get through any means including extortion and political terrorism.

Don't look for Obama or Reid to accept any budget that excludes the ACA. That's simply never going to happen. The President is not going to accept extortion as a tactic. He can't. No President would do that. He won 2 election on this and a court battle. It's done. It's a law. He's never going to allow a small group of ideologues to change the will of the people. And you can count on the *********s to Never stop trying to repeal it or defund it using any tactic they can, even to the point of bringing down the entire government and destroying the US and World economy for the sake of their ideology. The Republican Party is going through their own civil war. The best you can hope for is moderate Republicans to stand with Democrats to pass a budget. Total and complete opposition to Obama is part of the Tea Party ethic. They will primary any Republican that doesn't stand with them. 74% of the country is opposed to what they are doing...and they don't care. They cannot be reasoned with. It's their way, or they will burn the place down.