With all due respect, to speak up for those that don't have a voice regardless of colour or creed, which isn't to some bigots taste, but aren't we supposed to be living in a democracy. Press tv is banned, so that avenue is closed to most balanced minded individuals. The Muslim council of britian, appointed by the British government, where is the balance for Muslims? They cannot talk for fear. Imagine, frightened to use your democratic right in a democratic country. The return or the fascist government what your forefathers fought. Regards Highlander
None of this makes sense No it's not. And it's exactly the most neutral source of news anyway I don't know what you're talking about. I live in Bradford which has one the highest number of muslims/asian people in the UK and they seem ok to me. I don't have any problem voting.
Still waiting for proof of your accusations against chruchill concerning the Boer war and his being a paedophile.
Spain has been at it again. This time it has broken the 1961 Vienna Convention by opening a British diplomatic bag at the border with Gibraltar. The Foreign Office said last Friday’s incident, in which Guardia Civil officers stopped a courier travelling from the Rock into Spain, was ‘completely unacceptable’. It is not known what was in the bag or why police wanted to search it, something that has not happened since a British diplomatic bag was opened in Zimbabwe 13 years ago (the Spanish are now in the same company as Mugabe's regime). Diplomatic bags, used to carry important and confidential correspondence, are inviolable. The Foreign Office condemned the 'serious infringement' of the 1961 Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations. Ukip MEP William Dartmouth, who represents the Rock in the European Parliament, said: ‘The last time a British diplomatic bag was opened in this way was by Mugabe’s Zimbabwe. ‘Is that really the company Madrid wishes to keep?’ The FCO spokesman said: 'There are long-established and internationally-accepted Articles concerning use of the diplomatic bag to which the FCO adheres. We expect other parties to the Convention, including EU and NATO allies, to do the same. 'We take very seriously any reported abuse of the protocol surrounding use of the diplomatic bag. We have asked the Spanish authorities to investigate what occurred and take action to ensure it does not happen again. 'As far as we are concerned there is no justification for this infringement of the UK’s rights under the Vienna Convention.' An Urgent Question (UQ) was raised in the House of Commons yesterday after Prime Minister's Questions by an MP in which he asked David Lidington, the Minister for Europe (who also has responsibility for the British Overseas Territories of Gibraltar and Akrotiri & Dhekelia), what action he's going to take to put an end to the nefarious Spanish activities. Many MPs are saying that if the Spanish cause trouble over Gibraltar once more the Spanish ambassador should be expelled and, should a Spanish ship sail into Spanish waters again, the Royal Navy should open fire on it. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-Guardia-Civil-officers-border-Gibraltar.html
Again manipulation... . Acceptable, acceptable... Because is not diplomatic bag... the british governor in Gibraltar isn´tn any Diplomatic Corps member... Article 27 The receiving State shall permit and protect free communication on the part of the mission for all official purposes. In communicating with the Government and the other missions and consulates of the sending State, wherever situated, the mission may employ all appropriate means, including diplomatic couriers and messages in code or cipher. However, the mission may install and use a wireless transmitter only with the consent of the receiving State. Nor british governnor´s Office in Gibralair is any "part of hte mission" nor he is any member of the British diplomatic Corps... 2.The official correspondence of the mission shall be inviolable. Official correspondence means all correspondence relating to the mission and its functions. British governnor is not any "official mission" in Spain... not diplomatic official corresponence... the only Diplomatic mission is the British mission in Madrid and only in "relating to the mission and ITS FUNCTIONS".... It wouldl be nice if UK manipulate less and carry the signature in Utrecht out. 4.The packages constituting the diplomatic bag must bear visible external marks of their character and may contain only diplomatic documents or articles intended for official use. Nothing from Gibraltar is diplomatic bag... so, I´m afraid Spain will continue opening false diplomatic bags fromGibraltar (no from the british embassy in Madrid) but if GB wants to break relations...better sooner than later.. It wouldn´t be the first time, not even the 20th time... I think...! Regards and patience... until the blocks are removed.
Absolute rubbish. It seems as if the Spanish have been treating these bags as diplomatic bags for years, and it's only now that the dirty Dagos are, rather conveniently, now trying to claim that they aren't diplomatic. Here is what the British Government has said in response: "We disagree with the Spanish position, and we are puzzled and saddened that Spain should now question whether the bags were diplomatic and subject to the Vienna Convention, when they have been treated by the Spanish authorities as such for many years," an FCO spokesman told the Gibraltar Chronicle. "As the Spanish authorities know, there are overriding international principles that provide for both State immunity and the freedom of official communication between a state and its representatives." "There is and should have been no doubt that these bags were the property of Her Majesty's Government, that they were marked as such, and that tampering with the bags was a breach of these principles." According to the FCO, the Governor's Office in Gibraltar has been sending diplomatic bags for more than two decades, including across the border into Spain. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...misses-Gibraltar-diplomatic-bag-incident.html
The issue is that it is not diplomatic one. Point. It's not Vienna. If for 20 years as an goodwill act was tolerate.. It´s not any time to be custom or law. It is not diplomatic bag, everybody can read what was signed in Vienna on 61 ... Gibraltar has tried for 300 years as a Spanish waters and now the local authorities wants to change the Status Quo ... Spain can also change the treatment of correspondence sent from Gibraltar ... the only diplomatic mission is in Madrid ..no matter if the British government doesn´t like. I wouldn´t get angry too much.. If the Spanish authorities want to open correspondance from Gibraltar...that passes through spain It will.. The Brithish government lies, because knows it's not diplomatic bag, but still prefers to lie to deceive people...A Vienna violation would be to open correspondence from the British Embassy in Madrid ... but not the ones sent from Gibraltar. If the Gibraltar local authorities don´t want its correspondence opened.. it is very easy... Don´t send it through Spain!!!! And it the British government or the tories want to break diplomatic relations ... is a sovereign country... So, I do not know what they expect to do it.. Spain and Britain ... How many times have broken relationships? For sure It wouldn´t be the first!!!!! But please...if the British government want to break relations... Just do it!!! but don´t lie and don´t name diplomatic bag what is not!. Regards.. Dirty Dagoes? I see that British phlegm is a bull(*)(*)(*)(*)...
It was a diplomatic bag with officials seals and Spain broke the Vienna Convention in opening it. Spain has NO RIGHT to break international law. If Spain opens British diplomatic bags again I expect serious consequences for Spain. I also expect that, from now on,any Spanish vessels entering British Gibraltarean waters will be fired upon. Britain should no longer carry on going easy on Spain as it continues breaking international laws. You are wrong, and so is Spain. You obviously have no idea how diplomatic pouches work. Correspondence does NOT have to relate to an embassy or its functions. Diplomatic pouches are sent to numerous places that are not affliated with embassies, even to military bases. For the Spanish to say "A diplomatic pouch is a pouch that goes from an Embassy to the capital, or from the capital to an Embassy" is just complete and utter lies. This is how the U.S. Department of State defines a diplomatic pouch: A diplomatic pouch (or “bag” is any properly identified and sealed package, pouch, envelope, bag, or other container that is used to transport official correspondence, documents, and other articles intended for official use, between: Embassies, legations, consular posts, and the foreign office of any government; The headquarters or any other office of a public international organization and its regional offices in the United States or in a foreign country; or The foreign office of any country with full membership in a public international organization and its mission to that organization. http://www.state.gov/ofm/customs/c37011.htm There is NOTHING to suggest than an embassy has to be involved in the sending of a diplomatic pouch. Spain therefore broke the 1961 Vienna Convention and I should think it daren't open a British diplomatic pouch again or there'll be hell to pay. I hope that the Spanish ambassador is kicked out of Britain should Spain sabre-rattle over Gibraltar one more time. Next time you post on this thread, do your research first, as I have. Then you may post accurate information for a change instead of mythology.
Madrid cannot be trusted By David Eade The news is slowly filtering through that last Friday a Guardia Civil officer searched a diplomatic bag being sent from the Convent to the UK. Needless to say the incident has caused outrage at the Foreign & Commonwealth Office because for world diplomacy to work a diplomatic bag, its contents and indeed its courier are sacrosanct. To interfere with it breaks article 27 of the 1961 Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations and this is what Spain has done. However it is not only in London that disbelief is the order of the day over Madrid's actions. In every country of the world with a diplomatic service eyebrows will be raised because article 27 is never broken and yet Spain has done so. So if Spain breaks it at La Línea's border who is to say communications from the British Embassy in Madrid are not interfered with or those of other countries Spain is at odds with such as Argentina. The term diplomatic bag or pouch can apply to many things down to a cardboard box. It is a catchall diplomatic phrase covering physical items being sent between a government and its embassies or missions. It is clearly marked so there is no chance of confusing it with a carton of Marlboro and furthermore it bears official seals. Now one defence of Madrid maybe have been, and it would have been the most sensible even if untrue, was that an idiot Guardia Civil officer made a mistake. However I am sure there are idiot officers in Russia, China, Zimbabwe, Colombia, Thailand, Iran and so on and so forth but if they interfered with diplomatic bags the sacred Geneva Convention would have collapsed years ago. It still is in place because all governments use them and all governments need their communications to be confidential. Madrid's other answer, which is the one Rajoy and Margallo seem intent on using, is the bag did not have diplomatic status because the Convent has no status as far as it is concerned. However it was still a diplomatic bag with official seals and these have been sent in the same way for years without interference. Indeed how would a Guardia Civil officer know who was sending or receiving it other than it was the property of the British Government? What Madrid fails to comprehend is that sending State vessels into our waters is an affront to Britain as much as it is to Gibraltar. At the end of the day it is the Royal Navy it will face. When it searches a diplomatic bag it is the Foreign and Commonwealth Office it challenges. So Spain is not making life difficult for Gibraltarians; it is taking on the British Government. This seems to be lost on Rajoy and Margallo who believe it is business as usual between London and Madrid. They do not seem capable of understanding the dispute is no longer about the Rock but over British waters and confidential Foreign Office communications. How can Britain sit down with Spanish diplomats and politicians and pretend nothing has happened when it quite blatantly has and is continuing? The new British Ambassador to Madrid recently hailed the close relations with Spain and this is the message Rajoy and Margallo want to hear. Yet David Cameron and William Hague have made it very clear that Spain's actions over Gibraltar are not acceptable and very soon there will have to be a day of reckoning. The sooner the better. In the meantime London will be reviewing how it handles it diplomatic bags in Gibraltar and in Spain because it is clear that Madrid cannot be trusted. http://www.panorama.gi/localnews/headlines.php?action=view_article&article=11151&offset=0
It wasn´t a diplomatic bag. Nothing from Gibraltar is a "Mission". . Spain has RIGHT to open non-diplomatic bags if they come from any authorities in Gibraltar.. only bags fron the Mission to UK and from UK to the mission are DIPLOMATIC BAGS or POUCH... Serius consequences? threats do not work.. if local authorities sent pouch will be opened if they pass through Spain, if the Spanish government want to open ... If you don´t want to open, send to UK!!!!!!! Again more: it doesn´t exist any British water in Algeciras Bay.... It doens´t exist any territorial water... and Spanish vessel will CONTINIOUS entering in all the waters in Algeciras bay.. so Patient, my friend, patient... Do you show in this forum the Catholick King´s signature yielding any Water in any Treaty? By other side, It would be better no used the fire... It would be very uncomfortable the life: Border closed, airport closed, waters closed, internet closed...it is impossible to run a cable to gibraltar without cross Spanish land or waters ... absolutely impossible. Moreover, the population has grown in Gibraltar and water demand is much higher than 1969..and foods... and of course, if the British open fired in water aren´t british... Spaniards...What would they do if the British cross Spanish waters?and it is impossible to reach Gibraltar without crossing Spanish territrorial waters...So, it´s better to use the brain...without passion and with patient. Threats don´t work. You are wrong, an so is UK... No, Its not obviously... Wien is very clear, like Utrecht!!!!!! ARTICLE 27 IS VERY VERY CLEAR. I copy the text: 1.The receiving State shall permit and protect free communication on the part of the mission for all official purposes. In communicating with the Government and the other missions and consulates of the sending State, wherever situated, the mission may employ all appropriate means, including diplomatic couriers and messages in code or cipher. However, the mission may install and use a wireless transmitter only with the consent of the receiving State. 2.The official correspondence of the mission shall be inviolable. Official correspondence means all correspondence relating to the mission and its functions. 3.The diplomatic bag shall not be opened or detained. 4.The packages constituting the diplomatic bag must bear visible external marks of their character and may contain only diplomatic documents or articles intended for official use. 5.The diplomatic courier, who shall be provided with an official document indicating his status and the number of packages constituting the diplomatic bag, shall be protected by the receiving State in the performance of his functions. He shall enjoy person inviolability and shall not be liable to any form of arrest or detention. 6.The sending State or the mission may designate diplomatic couriers ad hoc. In such cases the provisions of paragraph 5 of this article shall also apply, except that the immunities therein mentioned shall cease to apply when such a courier has delivered to the consignee the diplomatic bag in his charge. 7.A diplomatic bag may be entrusted to the captain of a commercial aircraft scheduled to land at an authorized port of entry. He shall be provided with an official document indicating the number of packages constituting the bag but he shall not be considered to be a diplomatic courier. The mission may send one of its members to take possession of the diplomatic bag directly and freely from the captain of the aircraft. So the british journalist (paid by Pichardo) before write about Wien 1961... they ought to READ the convention.... By the way: Article 1 (about who are DIPLOMATICS) For the purpose of the present Convention, the following expressions shall have the meanings hereunder assigned to them: (a) The “head of the mission” is the person charged by the sending State with the duty of acting in that capacity; (b) The “members of the mission” are the head of the mission and the members of the staff of the mission; (c) The “members of the staff of the mission” are the members of the diplomatic staff, of the administrative and technical staff and of the service staff of the mission; (d) The “members of the diplomatic staff” are the members of the staff of the mission having diplomatic rank; (e) A “diplomatic agent” is the head of the mission or a member of the diplomatic staff of the mission; (f) The “members of the administrative and technical staff” are the members of the staff of the mission employed in the administrative and technical service of the mission; Nobody in Gibraltar belongs to any of that categories. Yes, Wien, Vasi, Vienna, Viena... 1961... Again more, my hot friend: Threats don´t work. Spain DIDN´T break any Convention... and You can be sure... the gibraltar correspondence will be open again if it cross Spanish land and the Spanish government want or need to open it. So Patient, patient, many and much Patient! Nothing new: you kicked out the Spanish ambasador and in Madrid is kicked out the British ambassador...very simple, basic and elemental. Nobody can break the Status Quo without consequences. I always research first... I always read the direct source, never the tabloids!!!!. By the way, I almost forgot: USA open diplomatic pouch in 1985... do you remember? And in that case was a belge diplomatic bag from New Delhi mission. Vastenavondt case http://ir.lawnet.fordham.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1218&context=ilj Nothing from Gibraltar has Diplomatic Status! If the local authorities in Gibraltar don´t like their correspondence will be open in Spain.. It´s very easy: Don´t send any bag through Spain!!!!!. Regards.
Absolute bull(*)(*)(*)(*). Braiatin should now fund basque and catalan Freedom movements (from Spasnish aggression) and fully endorse Ceuta and Mellillas rightful;l return to Morrocco
Oh, dear! Mr Sab, Are your able to reason with a deep thought or not? I see you know nothing about Spain, spaniard or the history of the country. Can you argue against my post or you can just say nonsense... 1.- It not diplomatic bag 2.- So, It´s possible to open if spanish autorities wanted 3.- If you don´t like to open...It´s very easy...Don´t Cross Spain!!!!! 4.- It doesn´t exist any British waters in Gibraltar... If you are going to write back, something I doubt... Show in this forum the Treaty signatured by the Catholick and British Kings where appears that clause...So till that day, Spanish vassels travel by that waters... yes or yes (like it said by your nationalist friends). 5.- If the british open fire...Gibraltar is untenable: Spain not even need to open fire back only the land, naval and air blockade. did you know it impossible to arrive to Gibraltar withouth crossing by Spanish air, water o land? 6.- If you get in the Spanish domestic politics, youl will come out as scalding as all foreigners who came to that country ... including: The Duke of Lancaster and his disastrous campaign in Galicia. 7.- It would be very difficult to provision Gibraltar if Spain adopted an hostil position as answer to a Britsh open fire incident. So, I recommed to you: Patient, patient and Patient...forget the "passion" and be pragmatic: we could negotiate the waters by the neutral ground, or come back to Status Quo broken by Gibraltar´s local authorities ... but forget that Spain will accept the Fait Accompli policy. Like I say: Spain is not the enemy... like UK is not the enemy: Islam is the real enemy and for our system of life, the Chinese unfair competition... but the little Spain and the little Britain aren´t the enemies... The good old days when both empires fought for world domination ... are finished, unfortunately I'm afraid. Regards and Less Passion and more Brain.
It was a diplomatic bag and was marked as such, as already mentioned. A better thing to do would be for Spain to abide by the Vienna Convention. The waters around Gibraltar are Gibraltarean waters. Why on Earth should Spain be able to claim waters around the territory of another nation? If the British open fire there'll be one or two Spanish vessels lying at the bottom of the Mediterranean. The British have very right to protect their waters by opening fire on vessels which know they shouldn't be there. That's one of the things the Royal Navy is for. As I say, I fully expect the next Spanish ship to enter British Gibraltarean waters to be blown of of those waters by a Royal Navy vessel. There is nothing to negotiate. Those waters are British Gibraltarean waters and will remain so.
Mr 16 string Jack It wasn´t any diplomatic bag (pouch) as already I metioned because in Gibraltar there is nobody included in Article 1º. So If Gibraltar authorities don´t like to have open correspondence... They know what to do...Don´t send it through Spain! A better thing to do would be for UK to abide what is signatured. Both Utrecht or Wien.. And if it´s possible to manipulate less...I´ve written articles 1 and 27 Convention and nor you nor nobody here can deny what I wrote.. and how nobody in Gibraltar has Diplomatic Status, so is False Pouch.. and I think the Spanish government will open new false pouch again... Nor your nor nobody in GB or in the World are goign to show any document, paper, treaty etc where the Catholick King yielded any water, not even Jurisdiction.. only Ownership... so, It´s not possible to have Jurisdictional Water... Are you going to present any document signatured by any King of Spain? Of coursen not. So, like it doesn´t exist any british water... Spanish ships are going to cross that waters always.. so I recommend Patience! And I´m afraid a few british ones too!!! to behave like a full-hormones teenager is not good in Policy or in War... For sure, Beatty could say much about that. What waters? There are no British Waters in Algeciras Bay.... Have you got the document? A "secret" clause in Utrecht? It´s the best way to lost Gibraltar! So if a british ship attacked a Spanish fisher ship in the Spanish Waters in Gibraltar... Gibraltar's economy would collapse ..not even an ounce of bread could enter... the airport closed, the bay closed, the border closed and possibly a British ship would be sunk... It´s not an intelligence way! My dear friend, Gibraltar is militaritly untenable, the only option would be to conquer an island in the Canaries and exchange .. but then again ...It would come back to the previous Status Quo and the waters would not be British...For two countries whose economies are not at a good time...that adventure would be stupid... and very expensive... and everything to return to the situation as it was before 2005.. There is all to negotiate.. Those waters are not british, never has been and never are going to be save by negotiation: Water for neutral zone evacuation or come back to former Status Quo (to remove the blocks). Patience is a virtue. Of course, You can always believe that the Spaniards would fail in an attack on Gibraltar (they always failed) .. by the way, like the British always failed in their attacks on Canary ... Nelson could talk about it. Regards
Mmm....... Geneva convention...... Rendition, illegal wars, lying to parliament, white phosphorous used on civilians...... Reaper drones used against civilians..... And all by your military and politicians. They should all be tried in The Hague. Highlander
Lying...... Thats like when you claim 1) to be in Inverness when you are clearly ignorant of the place 2) That Churchill was responsible for the Boer War Concentration camps 3) That Churchill was a paedophile 4) That Churchill was a 'sodomite' Or when you claim that the following are illegal 1) reaper drones 2) Invasion of Afghanistan 3) Rendition 4) White phosperous When Uk soldiers have broken the Geneva convention they have arrested them -one was sentenced only yesterday to life imprisonment. Of course your precious IRA purposefully murdered civilians so you are a hypocrite as well as a liar.
There's no fool like an old fool. I have merely highlighted the atrocious behaviour of your parasites in the city that you choose to live. I cannot help that those who used Ireland and the Irish kill each other isn't a one sided pogrom. But a norm for those same parasites you choose to support. Can you please enlighten me, where does it say that you can bomb civilians with reaper drones? Again by those same reprobates. I have forwarded to you his "churchill's" sandhurst appraisal, obviously you didn't read it. Where they stated he preyed on young boys. But you choose to live and support those same abarrations of humanity. The lady protests too much. Highlander
Do you think that you could forward a link? preferably with a copy of the actual document. I'm getting tired of seeing this argument being unresolved and still in the wrong part of the forum.
I think this side in the forum is about everything in Spain and/versus Britain... from the begining of times to the end.... but well, I´ll do some digression.. I do not met Churchill and never saw him having sex.. so I don´t know if he was hetero, homo, pederast, misogynist or if he prefered to do with animals .... the truth I don´t care. A historical character is judged by what he did in his time..not by his sexual preference...And Churchill had the greatness to face the communist beast (Lenin) and the nacional socialist beast (Hitler). To me that's much more important than the fact he preferred a woman or a boy in his bed. Maybe I ought to remember that Pederasty was a beloved instittuion in Sparta and the Theban Sacred Battallion consisted exclusively homosexuals...and I´m sure everybody in this forum know how hard fought the "pederast" in Thermopylae and the "homosexuals" in Leuctra..a man is judged in history for what he does, not who f.... And as this is about Spain and GB... and is Churchill... I´m going to tell the almost unknow story that Churchill was an officer in the Spanish army (Lieutenant) and his first action of war wasn´t in Traansval or Soudan but with the Spanish uniform in Cuba. His love for smoking cigar o pure began in the war of Cuba in 1895. About spaniards he said that they were the proudest people in the world that never tolerate an insult or an affront. In fact the concentration camp in Transvaal wasn´t invented by the British but by the Spaniards who used it in Cuba in 1896 (Don Valeriano Weyler Nicolau) http://www.abc.es/20110406/archivo/abci-churchill-espana-201104051245.html (Churchill and the Spanish Pride) One of the most curious events in the Spanish-Cuban-American war was the presence of Winston Churchill (1895) much before the U.S. entry into the war. Churchill was gathering information as a military observer. There are even some who infer that the information on tactics and methods used by the Spanish was put to work in subsequent Boer War, and led to the eventual victory of the British forces in that South African War. Maybe because he´s been an officer in the Spanish Army ( he won the Red Cross in the Action of Iguara, november 30, 1895), or maybe because he was an aristocrat but he prefered Cuba continued being a Spanish dominion. Many many years later...40 years later, when he remembered his adventures in Cuba, he said It´s not possible to be imparcial when you were on one side of the lines.. and he was in the Spanish side. Regards. A few american said Churchill fought against USA in Cuba, 1898... It´s not right. Churchill fought in 1895 and 1896, two years before the war broke out between USA and Spain.
As you so often prove London? So no evidence so far to back up any of your assertoins The Geneva convention prohibits certain weapons please show me where it prohibits the use of drones otherwise its just another of your lies. You certainly have done nothing of the sort. You often lie so Its hardly a surprise. I have no interests in poinless websites like 'whale' which don;t actually carry a copy of this appraisal but merely make claims. Please show me the actual appraisal. proof please because as usuakl you have treated us to your usual lies. Why do you lie so much?
Right as far as I'm concerned the issue of Churchill being a sodomite etc is a dead issue and should be ignored in this thread. As for the diplomatic bag incident, I don't believe that Spanish authorities intentionally opened diplomatic bags. The last BBC report on this issue was that there had been a "mistake on the junior level" which is far more believable than deliberately breaking such an important international agreement. The odds are that it was probably a new guy who was not thinking about his job or was just really not that bright, who knows. The real issue from the British perspective is the number of transgressions by Spanish vessels into maritime territory which Britain views as belonging to Gibraltar and by that extension; Britain. I believe that if diplomacy cannot achieve a cessation to these incursions then a vessel should be seized with it's crew disembarked and the vessel itself scuttled. Naturally Spain disputes the waters surrounding Gibraltar which should be negotiated after Spain stops it's incursions.
Exactly.. In this post I only can see Churchill like a young "spanish" lieutenant in service in the Expeditonary Force in Cuba. That's the problem .. that Spain doesn´t recognize any territorial water, and therefore, passing through any part of the bay, it doesn´tt violate anything. I don´t think It´s a good Idea. That could lead to the Gibraltar´s airport clousure, for example. Exactly, should be negotiated after local authorities remove the blocks they throw into water. As I wrote, there are two possible negotiations: a) Recognize British sovereign waters (which is contrary to the treaty of Utrecht) in exchange for the evacuation of the neutral zone. b) Back to former Status Quo, broken by the local authorities in Gibraltar: the blocks are removed and everybody use water as usual. Regards.
I concur. Well it's really more of a gamble and that's if everything else has been exhausted, kind of a make or break solution. The blocks should be removed even if only temporarily. Although a prudent suggestion in regards to both A and B I think that Britain would actually lose in such a deal. I would suggest that the waters around Gibraltar be made wholly British and allow free passage for a limited time per vessel. I would include a compensation package for the fishing boat(s) that used the area. This would put an end to the issue without impeding on anyone's right of travel and would make the Spanish government look like the victors as they have secured payment for Spain's fishing industry. It would seem to me that Rajoy's government has used this issue as a distraction from the economic problems in Spain and I believe that this deal would allow for his government to attain the objective and ease national discontent.
I think It´s better for everybody don´t break.. I dont think so. I prefer B solution but I´m going to explain: A.- Britain wins the Spanish and International recognition of the waters around Gibraltar in exchange evacuates an area that is not British by any treaty, not even is now British (Neutral Zone), zone occupied by a hoax (taking adventage of the cholera epidemic in Gibraltar in 1854 and with the Spanish consent for humanitarian reasons and with temporary term). Spain wins the evacuation of a zone is not british under any treaty. B.- My favourite. Everything comes back to the situation before 2005. Blocks are removed and british and spanish use the Bay without limits. Everybody wins. I think It could be debate but we must remember the fishermen are there from 20 centuries ago...and by other side, Only it would be British waters around the limits yielded in Utrecht but could never be British the waters around the airport, which is not British land under any law or treaty and that should be a nonnegotiable limit. The blocks are in waters off a land that is not british under any treaty. The British waters´recognition (within the limits assigned in Utrecht) would be very important because for the first time in history would recognize something never yielded in Utrecht: The British sovereignty over Gibraltar, which was never granted in Utrecht. But blocks must be removed and that waters opossite Airport would be used by both countries without limits. The issue isn´t "look like"... the issue is that no one can unilaterally break the Status Quo and everything should be back as it has been for centuries. But Pro-Consul, It would seem to me that It wasn´t Rajoy who threw 70 blocks into water, I think...It was the local authorities who have tried taking the opportunity to gain ground and sovereignty over a site that doesn´t belong them. An unacceptable behavior that no country can tolerate. Regards
As do I Well it would still be a loss as the neutral zone is a developed part of Gibraltar and remains neutral as there is no military presence within it. Unfortunately there has been a history of harassment towards the British at Gibraltar even before the "blocks" Of course but it was Rojoy who has responded disproportionately. Now as for Utrecht although I do understand your point regarding the said treaty, I do believe that the treaty itself does not define the limits in regard to the waters. Also the "1958 Convention on the Territorial Sea and the Contiguous Zone defines" remedies that issue.
