Striking down all the slavery apologetics for the Bible

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Greenleft, Sep 29, 2019.

  1. Greenleft

    Greenleft Well-Known Member

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    I wrote all this as a passing comment in another thread, but I felt this was worth a thread of its own. Slavery in the Bible cannot be excused or defended. Here I wrote down all the apologetics I've read and heard and strike each one down.

    1. Allowing is not condoning.

    This is a distinction without a difference. It's like holocaust by-standing. Also, the Bible is silent on slave raiding that is kidnapping people from vulnerable communities. By it's omission, slave raiding is also permitted.

    2. The culture of the ancient world must not be viewed by modern standards.

    Well then it is dated wisdom and not timeless wisdom which is what the Bible is supposed to be. The instructions on how to treat a slave are of no relevance to the present day Christian.

    3. Indentured servants were treated like family members and were only temporary. Their system was revolutionary for the time.

    Indentured servants were only fellow Hebrews. Foreigners were still slaves for life. If the standards of slavery in the Bible are something to be praised over, would you like to be my slave today?

    From a secular perspective, I support incrementalism by gradually over time giving people more freedoms and rights. In the United States for example; first you freed the slaves, then you had universal suffrage. But an all knowing deity must express human rights in the ultimate and and absolute form.

    4. The New Testament teaches that slave and free are all equal in God's love.

    Well then why not show the greatest gesture of love and command the slave owner allow the slave the freedom to walk away?

    God granted man free will right? Why not clarify that teaching with an amendment that abolishes slavery.

    5. Many Christians were abolitionists

    As were many upholders. What makes Christianity special then?

    6. Slavery is divine justice on the enemies of Israel

    Then why not just enslave the fighting men and leave those who did not pick up sword or spear alone (especially women and children)? And it should at least be only temporary until those men are no longer considered a threat.

    Got any more apologetics to throw at me?
     
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  2. Margot2

    Margot2 Well-Known Member

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    Religious movements have rarely gone against the pre-existing culture of their times.. and that's not an excuse.. That's a fact.
     
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  3. Greenleft

    Greenleft Well-Known Member

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    With that in mind, how much truth is there in ANY religion? It's just another ingredient in human society. Nothing revolutionary to create a utopia and nothing to obtain salvation.
     
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  4. Greenleft

    Greenleft Well-Known Member

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    I'll take the silence as conceding the point that the Bible is not the "Inerrant Word of God"

    One atheist on Youtube even mentioned how the New Testament commands slaves to obey their masters. He also said, although he did not prove it, that there are instructions in the Bible on how to actually obtain slaves.

    I'm just throwing that additional material out there but I cannot be 100% sure of it. If any fellow atheists can point to it in the Bible, please do so.
     
  5. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    As it says in Leviticus 25:44-46 (ERV) =
    44 “About your men and women slaves: You may get men and women slaves from the other nations around you. 45 Also, you may get children as slaves if they come from the families of the foreigners living in your land. These child slaves will belong to you. 46 You may even pass these foreign slaves on to your children after you die so that they will belong to them. They will be your slaves forever. You may make slaves of these foreigners. But you must not be a cruel master over your own brothers, the Israelites.

    Don't forget, the Bible says that Gentiles will be slaves in Israel and the Talmud says that each Jew will get 2,800 Gentile slaves in the afterlife. Maybe that is why they financed the transatlantic slave trade for centuries.
     
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  6. Paul7

    Paul7 Well-Known Member

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    Funny how the anti-slavery movement arose in the Judeo-Christian West and noplace else. It was a revolutionary thing when Paul told the owner of the slave Onesimus to treat him as his brother in Christ.

    I'd rather be a slave on my way to heaven than Bill Gates on his way to hell.
     
  7. Margot2

    Margot2 Well-Known Member

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    Point taken.
     
  8. Margot2

    Margot2 Well-Known Member

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    Why do you think Bill Gates is going to hell?

    Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation
    https://www.gatesfoundation.org
    We seek to unlock the possibility inside every individual. We see equal value in all lives. And so we are dedicated to improving the quality of life for individuals around the world. From the education of students in Chicago, to the health of a young mother in Nigeria, we are catalysts of human promise everywhere.
     
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  9. Paul7

    Paul7 Well-Known Member

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    I don't know, but none of those things you list will get you to heaven. Is that what the Episcopal Church tells you?
     
  10. Margot2

    Margot2 Well-Known Member

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    LOLOL.. Whatever.
     
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  11. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    Maybe you can be one of the 2,800 slaves for Net and yahoo.
     
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  12. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    Can you name one Jew who was prominent in the antislavery movement? I think they were too busy selling slaves to be against slavery.
     
  13. Paul7

    Paul7 Well-Known Member

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    In the Bible slavery was either voluntary, resulting from military conquest, or due to economic hardship. It was never based on race alone, and the kidnapping, rape and murder of slaves was not allowed.
     
  14. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    Such nice slave owners.
     
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  15. ARDY

    ARDY Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    yes, it is a VERY HUMAN FACT.
    If we start by acknowledging that mankind has invented all religions...
    It is a perfectly reasonable explanation
    But GOD should not be concerned with how to structure a religious movement that will not conflict with “pre-existing cultures of the time..?
     
  16. Margot2

    Margot2 Well-Known Member

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    God is strangely absent.
     
  17. Paul7

    Paul7 Well-Known Member

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    I reject your premise. God tolerated but made more humane a not good human institution, just like He did divorce.
     
  18. Tosca1

    Tosca1 Member

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    Slavery in ancient times wasn't like slavery as we know it in modern times! It wasn't race-based.

    Though the Bible doesn't specifically condemn slavery, it explicitly forbids human trafficking!


    Exodus 21:16
    “Whoever steals a man and sells him, and anyone found in possession of him, shall be put to death.

    Deuteronomy 24:7
    “If a man is found stealing one of his brothers of the people of Israel, and if he treats him as a slave or sells him, then that thief shall die. So you shall purge the evil from your midst.

    Psalm 82:3 ESV
    Give justice to the weak and the fatherless; maintain the right of the afflicted and the destitute.

    1 Timothy 1:10 ESV
    The sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine,


    https://www.gotquestions.org/Bible-slavery.html
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2019
  19. jay runner

    jay runner Well-Known Member

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    That's how it was then. It's still that way in some countries. It's not that way now in the USA except for sex trafficking and sex slaves, which are illegal practices.

    But Christianity always condemned abortion, as did the Greeks prior to the advent of Christians. (just had to encroach on the border and sneak that little one in).
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2019
  20. Tosca1

    Tosca1 Member

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    You haven't struck down this one. In fact, you're wrong!

    The Bible is not silent on slave raiding. Human trafficking, as it is called today. It is explicitly forbidden!



    Exodus 21:16
    “Whoever steals a man and sells him, and anyone found in possession of him, shall be put to death.

    Deuteronomy 24:7
    “If a man is found stealing one of his brothers of the people of Israel, and if he treats him as a slave or sells him, then that thief shall die. So you shall purge the evil from your midst.

    Psalm 82:3
    Give justice to the weak and the fatherless; maintain the right of the afflicted and the destitute.

    1 Timothy 1:10
    The sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine,
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2019
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  21. Tosca1

    Tosca1 Member

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    Well no......it is obviously an error on your part, to not understand that you cannot compare the current slavery that we know of, with that
    practiced in ancient times! Some people in ancient times had VOLUNTEERED to become slaves! Why?

    Economic reasons!


    http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/slavery_bible.html


    You also lack understanding of the Bible otherwise you wouldn't make the claim that slave-raiding is permitted!
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2019
  22. Paul7

    Paul7 Well-Known Member

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    Shouldn't slavery in Islam TODAY bother you?
     
  23. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    Slavery is more common now that in the ancient world.
     
  24. Tosca1

    Tosca1 Member

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    Why? With all the welfare available - to want to be a slave today.... for what? :lol:


    You don't live during their time!



    Well, you are not God, let alone all-knowing. So, there!
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2019
  25. Tosca1

    Tosca1 Member

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    Irrelevant!

    Your topic isn't about how things (according to your standard), should've been done by God. :lol:

    You're giving an opinion, when you are obviously disinformed.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2019

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