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Swing-state households would lose at least $70G within first year of Green New Deal, study finds

Discussion in 'United States' started by Josephwalker, Jul 30, 2019.

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  1. TomFitz

    TomFitz Well-Known Member

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    You really don’t have to worry about it anymore.

    We’re at the point where all this nonsense from the global warming deniers is irrelevant.

    Renewables are turning the cost corner, and battery technology is approaching the point where it will be cheap enough to store peak energy, rather than employ natural gas peaked plants. Once that happens, natural gas will increasingly be devoted to base load power, in lieu of nuclear and coal. Natural gas plants are cheap to build, easy to expand, and relatively clean of greenhouse gasses.

    Meanwhile the cost curve on wind and solar generated power will continue to go down, and demand for a totally distributed grid becomes natural.

    Add to that, the wholesale switch to electric cars and trucks, and I think we’re going to lick this in the next decade.

    I am certain that the electric car revolution is almost at hand, and it will happen a lot faster than people expect.

    Nearly every part of the country has been touched by small and large things that suggest global warming is real.
     
    TomFitz, Aug 3, 2019
    #151
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  2. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    More bovine excrement!

    You are BILLED for what you USED therefore you OWE them THEIR MONEY!

    Just like you OWE the government money for the services that YOU USED.

    THEFT of SERVICES is a CRIME!
     
    Derideo_Te, Aug 4, 2019
    #152
  3. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    Every major vehicle manufacturer is going to be offering a range of electric vehicles starting in 2020. People going to buy new vehicles will realize the benefits of no longer being held hostage by the fossil fuel cartel just like they realized the benefit of ObamaCare.

    Once they start using electric vehicles they won't turn back. I don't recall any Prius owner trading their hybrid electric in for a gas guzzling SUV. Fleet owners will jump on the lower fuel and maintenance costs. Every Rental Agency will make them available.
     
    Derideo_Te, Aug 4, 2019
    #153
  4. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    Thereby DEBUNKING your bogus allegation about Republicans and the environment in the 21st century.
     
    Derideo_Te, Aug 4, 2019
    #154
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  5. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Banned

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    No you owe them your money.
     
    Josephwalker, Aug 4, 2019
    #155
  6. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    Which means that it is THEIR MONEY, not yours.
     
    Derideo_Te, Aug 4, 2019
    #156
  7. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Banned

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    After you give them your money it is there money. The more you post on this the more you prove my original point. Liberals think money you earn belongs to the government and they decided how much you can keep.
     
    Josephwalker, Aug 4, 2019
    #157
  8. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    Your point has been exposed as FALLACIOUS!

    When you received SERVICES you are REQUIRED to pay for them.

    FAILURE to pay for them is criminal THEFT OF SERVICES.

    It is NOT "your money" when you have been the beneficiary of services that you have NOT PAID FOR.
     
    Derideo_Te, Aug 4, 2019
    #158
  9. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Banned

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    The more you post the more you prove my point about liberals. Thanks for playing. LOL
     
    Josephwalker, Aug 4, 2019
    #159
  10. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    Not my problem if your "point" is to support THEFT OF SERVICES crimes.
     
    Derideo_Te, Aug 4, 2019
    #160
  11. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

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    Let's consider the possibilities of such a statement:

    Employers are criminal, greedy, and untrustworthy.

    Employees are not too intelligent.

    It's your own fault for trusting that a free market economy would not need regulations and for not seeing the future.
     
    Adfundum, Aug 4, 2019
    #161
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  12. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

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    All true. But it should be mentioned that batteries represent a real threat to the environment.
     
    Adfundum, Aug 4, 2019
    #162
  13. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    Fortunately the Recycling industry is taking their responsibility seriously when it comes modern batteries.
     
    Derideo_Te, Aug 4, 2019
    #163
  14. Old Man Fred

    Old Man Fred Well-Known Member

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    You don't seem to understand that a heavily regulated market is not capitalism.
     
    Old Man Fred, Aug 11, 2019
    #164
  15. Old Man Fred

    Old Man Fred Well-Known Member

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    I guess we were both wrong.

    The primary difference is that Obama was heavily pressured into doing so, while Bush did it willingly.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2019
    Old Man Fred, Aug 11, 2019
    #165
  16. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

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    Why are you changing my comment to mean "heavily regulated"? Let's not go to extremes yet.
     
    Adfundum, Aug 11, 2019
    #166
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  17. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    Unregulated capitalism is just another form of theft!
     
    Derideo_Te, Aug 12, 2019
    #167
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  18. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    Too bad that you won't be able to prove that bogus allegation either!
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2019
    Derideo_Te, Aug 12, 2019
    #168
  19. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

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    And how so? Captalism is when companies create products that people buy willingly. There is no theft involved.
     
    doombug, Aug 12, 2019
    #169
  20. TomFitz

    TomFitz Well-Known Member

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    That’s an interesting point.

    Imagine people getting introduced to electric cars by renting one. I would suspect that in tourist meccas like Orlando and Las Vegas, the vast majority of rental cars are driven less than 200 miles per customer. They’d love the convenience of just bringing the car back instead of looking for a gas station on the way to the airport!
     
    TomFitz, Aug 12, 2019
    #170
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  21. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

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    There is an idealistic assumption that capitalism is self-regulating. I very much disagree with that when I see what the drug industry is doing with prices. Unifying as an industry to prevent open market competition from undercutting prices is what I call theft. People who depend on certain drugs but can't afford them are not willingly buying them. Some might call it price gouging, but I call it theft. And when people die because they can't afford medications, I call that murder, the same as when companies knowingly dump toxic wastes into the ground and pollute the water.

    There is the assumption that capitalism will never result in monopolistic take overs that end in only a handful of corporations ruling the economy or even the country. We've had to step in a put a stop to such behaviors several times in the past. We've had to stop companies from polluting, from stealing investments, from stifling competition, from stealing property from those who can't afford legal protections.

    Human nature being what it is means that if we are to hold on to the promise of opportunity, we have to regulate to some extent.
     
    Adfundum, Aug 12, 2019
    #171
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  22. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

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    I'm all for alternative fuels, but I'm not really on board with the direction we're going with electric vehicles. Not only are they expensive, but a few years down the road owners will need to replace those batteries. The new batteries are incredibly expensive and the used batteries present us with disposal problems.

    It seems to me that the industry's move to more electric vehicles might be triggered by the life of the batteries and the decision owners will have to make about buying new batteries or a new car.

    I keep waiting for hydrogen, but it doesn't seem as commercially viable as batteries.
     
    Adfundum, Aug 12, 2019
    #172
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  23. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    The cost of replacement batteries has come way down as well as the cost of repairing the battery back if that is cheaper. FTR many of these vehicles have clocked over 250,000 miles without a battery failure.

    https://www.torquenews.com/1083/dont-buy-new-toyota-prius-hybrid-battery-have-it-repaired-instead

    https://www.autonews.com/article/20...0/how-hybrid-battery-recycling-can-help-sales

    FYI there is hope for Hydrogen since it was discovered that it can be safely stored and transported.

    https://www.nature.com/news/liquid-storage-could-make-hydrogen-a-feasible-fuel-1.12518

    https://newatlas.com/new-polymer-stores-hydrogen-safely/46686/
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2019
    Derideo_Te, Aug 13, 2019
    #173
  24. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

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    I see some really cheap batteries cells on Amazon. $25-30 each. But those are used. New ones are running from over $1000 to over $2000 per battery pack. For me, it's a deal breaker.
    As far as the recycling, there are some toxic waste issues that bother me when it comes to those kind of batteries. Even hydrogen batteries/fuel cells have a toxic factor to them, but I think hydrogen offers more options that could be much better. But we know the fossil fuel industry will fight that at every chance.
     
    Adfundum, Aug 13, 2019
    #174
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  25. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    Replacing bad cells with used cells is a cheap and effective way to repair the entire battery pack in a Prius. I agree that the fossil energy cartel is going to block everything and anything that will impact their revenue streams.
     
    Derideo_Te, Aug 14, 2019
    #175
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