Taiwan in Trouble!

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by AARguy, Dec 3, 2021.

  1. Toggle Almendro

    Toggle Almendro Well-Known Member

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    That was during the Cold War when Communism was trying to take over the world and we were fighting them everywhere in the world.

    Look at Venezuela today. We would have been quick to topple their communist government during the Cold War. Yet today their communist government does its very best to pick a fight with us, and we just can't be bothered enough to even notice their existence.
     
  2. mswan

    mswan Well-Known Member

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    I think that’s because in the Western Hemisphere the is no great power conflicts. If Russia or China tried to establish a military presence here, as we have done in East Asia, we would respond militarily. Remember how both China and Russia responded to our war in Vietnam
     
  3. Distraff

    Distraff Well-Known Member

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    I think we need to secretly give Taiwan nukes. And then work on building a military and economic alliance of Asian nations. We also need to try to flip Myanmar to a democracy again.
     
  4. Toggle Almendro

    Toggle Almendro Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps. But neither China nor Russia are the threat that cold war Communism was.

    Russia is enough of a paper tiger that we might ignore a Russian military base in South America. China though is adopting a threatening enough posture these days that maybe we would act against a Chinese base.
     
  5. mswan

    mswan Well-Known Member

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    I agree, Russia is a declining power. China is determined to become a peer competitor of the U.S. we need to approach conflict with them the way we did the Soviet Union, with alliances, economic pressure, soft power, and military power where it can be effective. I’m just not sure Taiwan is the right place for us to use military power.
     
  6. Toggle Almendro

    Toggle Almendro Well-Known Member

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    What if China invades them and all peaceful methods fail to end the invasion?
     
  7. mswan

    mswan Well-Known Member

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    I’d like to say we should use all available to protect Taiwan. But, I’m 75 years old, spent 6 years in the Navy during the Vietnam War. We lost more than 50,000 young Americans in that war, some personal friends, in an unsuccessful effort to protect South Vietnam from the communists in the north.

    I would hate to see that happen again.
     
  8. Toggle Almendro

    Toggle Almendro Well-Known Member

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    I don't anticipate much in the way of ground combat in a war against China.

    The Marines do have plans to conquer those little man-made islands that China is building. And perhaps if China invades Taiwan successfully we could counter-invade Taiwan. But we aren't going to have troops on the ground in mainland China.

    Most of a war against China will be conducted by the US Air Force. The Navy will probably keep their distance from Chinese land-based anti-ship missiles, but will have a role to play in blocking Chinese shipping far from Chinese shores.
     
  9. AARguy

    AARguy Banned

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    Russia is a "declining power" that just realized Russia' thousand-year-old dream of establishing a warm water port (now in Syria). Russia is a "declining power" that just sealed a deal to become the major supplier of Europe's energy... with Biden's blessing for the pipeline as he shuts our own down, by the way. Russia is "declining power" that can still come up with massive funding for the R&D to produce a hypervelocity missile. Oh, and finally, Russia is a "declining power" that has a lot more nukes than we do.

    Afghanistan has proven to our enemies that any aggression on their part will be met firmly with strongly worded letter and nothing more. Buckle up.
     
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  10. Toggle Almendro

    Toggle Almendro Well-Known Member

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    Don't forget our hedge stockpile.

    And we'll be building our arsenal back up soon enough. The current arms limitation treaty expires in about four years.
     
  11. GlobalCitizen

    GlobalCitizen Well-Known Member

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    China has weak points vs conventional weapons: the dams along the Yellow/Yangtze rivers. A couple of cruise missiles would inundate the Chinese heartland, and destroy major cities.
     
  12. GlobalCitizen

    GlobalCitizen Well-Known Member

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    They are in charge until Americans get hurt. Their greed has motivated them to use politicians/media/and recently big tech to downplay the CCP threat to the US, including their recent involvement in the creation/escape/release of Covid. They have coupled our economy with that of a ruthless dictatorship. All of the most powerful people in the world now have their fortunes linked with that of the CCP. Any conflict, or rhetoric, that risks this money will be avoided at any cost (principles, friends, acceptance of militarily disadvantageous positions). This includes questioning the origin of Covid. The richest of the world have conspired to hide the danger that the CCP represents. They will play this game right up to the end, just like with Hitler. In a country with principles, you would think at that moment, their treason will be dealt with.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2021
  13. Toggle Almendro

    Toggle Almendro Well-Known Member

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    True, but we'd probably focus on attacks that destroyed the Chinese military without causing vast amounts of collateral damage.
     
  14. s002wjh

    s002wjh Well-Known Member

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    so your idea is basically zero sum, any major power that raise, result in conflict? what happen in 50 years india become very powerful and want to dominate in india ocean, we gonna fight them too.
    there always gonna be a raising power, dont think our only option is war with them, given all the major power have nuke now.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2022
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  15. s002wjh

    s002wjh Well-Known Member

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    so your saying, you want flood china and kill perhap millions civilians INTENTIONALLY? sound like war crime to me, oh i'm pretty sure if we doing that, they gonna retaliate with nuke, at that point is everybody bye bye.
    also even if you could, its not gonna happen, the dam are heavily protected by air defense, and its in the interior of china, not somewhere u can just access to it. furthermore, they were design to withstand a small tactical nuke.
     
  16. AARguy

    AARguy Banned

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    No war was ever won from the air without use of nukes. Unoccupied enemy territory is still... enemy territory.
     
  17. s002wjh

    s002wjh Well-Known Member

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    so you saying, we need land war. we already know any land war in asia just bad news.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2022
  18. AARguy

    AARguy Banned

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    I am not saying that at all. I am saying that bombing those dams won't win any possible war. No war has ever been won strictly with air power.... unless nukes were used. I'm saying air power can't win wars by itself... I am NOT proposing using nukes.
     
  19. AARguy

    AARguy Banned

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    Let me assure you... from personal experience... ALL WAR is "bad news".
     
  20. s002wjh

    s002wjh Well-Known Member

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    1999 kosovo war, we win using only air power. of course we are talking about china here, thats on a different level. probably not gonna win it, may be some kind of truce.
    i do agree any war just bad. not only the human cost, but draining of economy, a nation that have alot war, is a nation in decline. war is the last resort.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2022
  21. AARguy

    AARguy Banned

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    OK, let me rephrase. air power alone has never WON or ENDED a war... never forced a truce either.
     
  22. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    The world's two greatest economies would be devastated by any war between them. The US and China are strongly mutually dependent, and I expect China would be hit even harder due to European sanctions as well.

    Me thinks they will refrain from attacking Taiwan for these reasons. Setting aside the difficulty of invading and taking Taiwan by force, China's economy would be ruined by the loss of exports.
     
  23. Toggle Almendro

    Toggle Almendro Well-Known Member

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    I hope you're right. But I think China plans to attack as soon as they are ready to do so.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2022
  24. Toggle Almendro

    Toggle Almendro Well-Known Member

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    If a future India tries to seize control over international waters, there will be war.

    If a future India complies with international law, there will be peace.


    Even if we were at war I don't think we would make such a catastrophic move against them, but would instead stick to attacking their military.

    However, China probably wouldn't have many nukes to respond with, as most of their nukes will have been destroyed early in a war.


    No problem. If we were to attack it, we'd use stealth bombers.


    That would certainly be an obstacle to conventional attack.

    But like I said, I don't think we would make such a catastrophic move against them in the first place.


    I think we can win. Of course by win I only mean prevent them from conquering Taiwan.


    True. It will be good if we can avoid war to begin with.

    If we quickly build up forces on Taiwan every time China builds up forces to attack, perhaps we can prevent the war from even beginning.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2022
  25. JET3534

    JET3534 Well-Known Member

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    Current policy may be a policy of confusion. but who wants to die or have a family member die for Taiwan? What have they ever done for me? What will they do for me? I ask because I like to frame things in terms of what Ayn Rand described as objectivism. Or what Trump called America-first. Also, anyone who wants to resurrect the cold war Domino theory should understand this theory died with the end of the Vietnam war -- which was pretty obvious with the war between China and Vietnam in 1979. Of course any war to prevent an invasion of Taiwan would either go all out (disaster) or be another limited war (disaster). The concern with China should be in limiting their influence and information operations here in the US.

    And to add one more thing, wasn't our treaty to defend Taiwan terminated 42 years ago?
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2022

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