since what I said was that electrical activity does not mean thought please feel free to explain why it is me and not you who are confused since your post appears irrelevent to my statement.
There is no proof. This claim is false. The person is likely confusing electrical activity with brainwaves. Every human cell has electrical activity - this does not a brainwave make. By my recollection it is around 22-24 weeks that the wiring gets completed ... at which point the brain lights up like an xmas tree.
That's a foolish statement which shows you have no exposure to Christianity, and have not gone to the trouble of even a simple reading of the Bible. Does your statement make any sense given Christianity holds the "golden rule" as part of the highest commandment from God? And a good example of taking something out of context. In the 1st Century, the world was a patriarchal world, women had sexual roles, and that is reflected in Pauls letter to Timothy in Ephesus (the main Temple of Dianna, which was also one of the 7 wonders of the world). In the major cities of the time, women had major roles in the Greek temples as prostitutes and priestesses, and the temptation for Christians to stray was ever present. The women from the greek temples who became Christians had to abandon their previous role as a seductress (temple prostitute), Paul argues they should go to the other extreme. Its a common argument in the Bible (described in more detail in Pauls letter to Corinth). In fact, Paul a little later states that "and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived, and so became guilty of transgression", that's not true. In the Garden of Eden, when Satan convinced Eve to eat the fruit of the Tree, Adam was standing right next to her listening to Satan. Paul then writes that women are saved through childbirth - clearly not something to be taken literally. Every person is saved by faith through grace as Paul wrote in nearly every letter he wrote. Paul is clearly addressing the problem of propriety Christians were facing in Ephesus where Timothy was located. Was Paul a misogynist? Absolutely not, some of his most trusted people he appointed to run major Christian churches were women. Read his letters. If you don't understand all of the Bible, and don't understand the environment, then you have no context.
Your response does not address the question of why one man's subjective opinion leads to more objectivity than another man's subjective opinion.
I doubt the Bible says any such thing. For myself however, as strange as it may sound, it simply comes down to a "first come, first serve" basis. The mother has been engaged in life much longer than the fetus, has more experiences and more awareness of herself, her desires, her fears and of life in general. Thus, the mother has more to lose than the fetus which, even if considered a human being, could not rationalize loss of life. So I take little issue when abortion is done out of "inconvenience".
Are you suggesting that Humans cannot be objective? One can incorporate fact-based objectivity in their opinion. The views of the Pope and Jim Jones are heavily subjective, in part due to prejudicial biases.
I was raised Romanian Orthodox, and have done location blocking, character blocking and dialog blocking of all four "gospels," which is how I know there are 100s of discrepancies and contradictions. So when do you pan on applying the Gold Rule? Wow, you didn't fail to disappoint anyone with screaming of "context." You're really quite predictable. Whenever something is horrendous, brutal, savage merciless, immoral, murderous, petty, heartless, unjust, sickening, appalling, barbaric, cruel, unfair, ridiculous or disgusting. Thanks for proving my point. And who set the World up to be a patriarchal world? That would be Jesus, who also set up systems of slavery. How did that work out for everyone? Jesus should have foreseen that the World would gravitate toward one of equality, but he was too dumb to do that. Exodus 21:20-21 – "If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property." Colossians 3:22-24 – "Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything; and do it, not only when their eye is on you and to win their favor, but with sincerity of heart and reverence for the Lord. Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for men, since you know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as a reward. It is the Lord Christ you are serving." Ephesians 6:5 - "Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ." 1 Peter 2:13 - "Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every authority instituted among men: whether to the king, as the supreme authority." 1 Peter 2:18 - "Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh." 1 Timothy 6:1 - "1 All who are under the yoke of slavery should consider their masters worthy of full respect, so that God's name and our teaching may not be slandered." Jesus taught everyone to be good slaves, but I suppose you're going to claim that all of those passages were "taken out of context." Jesus in morally inferior to me. What Jesus should have been saying is that slave masters are destined to Hell, and slaves should rise up and slay their masters, lest they be destined for Hell, too.
From your posts, I do not believe you have done any serious or even significant study of the Bible. Particularly since every argument I have seen from you is based on a text taken out of context.
The Golden Rule was the rock on which Jesus based his teachings. Christianity in general does not have a great record of following this rule. The Fundamentalists (religious right in the US) in particular do not follow this rule.
Well, that was informative. Fetuses are not legal "persons" with rights. They are human. They are alive. They are NOT "persons" with rights.
The Bible exempts accidental killing of any human of any age. So there goes your first point. That's God doing it, not human beings. For punishment for his adultery, David's baby son died. By your logic, is a newborn not human? No it doesn't actually.
Well if god does it it must be OK.....and how fair is it to kill a woman's fetus because David committed adultery? Is it fair to the woman or the fetus? How barbaric and stupid, THEY didn't commit adultery......the bible didn't see either fetuses or women as human beings...
well first of all it was a newborn and secondly, How is it fair for the mother to kill the unborn child for the mistake she made or the crime the rapist made? is it fair to murder the unborn for the crime of the rapist? And to answer the question, these links explain it better than I. http://www.rationalchristianity.net/david_son.html http://comeandreason.com/index.php/en/media-center/column2/blogs/305-did-god-kill-davids-baby Evidence?
Not in the quote we were discussing : """This clearly means that the Bible did NOT consider the taking of this unborn life to be the taking of life. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Numbers+5:11-31 In Numbers 5:11, it says that if a wife is accused of being unfaithful and becoming pregnant by another man, they should go to a Priest and the Priest will cast a spell with water on the woman that will NOT harm her if she has not been unfaithful, but WILL cause the woman to miscarry if she is pregnant by another man""" I don't know how that compares but if your god thinks it's OK why not ? AND how fair is it to punish a woman for being raped by forcing her to give birth to the rapist's kid? It isn't. That's like being raped all over again, force and control are the weapons of rapists and Anti-Choicers. There is no murder in abortion. Is it fair to punish a woman for being raped by forcing her to give birth to a rapist's kid. An action that will affect her for the rest of her life? Convicted rapists don't get life in prison... "rational christianity" is not only an oxymoron but hardly an unbiased site By killing them willy nilly over something a man did....
Which again, The Bible doesn't count anything under a year old in a census. Does that mean they aren't human either or that God is ok with killing them? It compares because you're trying to discredit my argument by saying it's not fair to kill the unborn for the mistake of another while you yourself advocate that the woman has the right to abort if she was raped or felt the pregnancy was a mistake. the same way how it is fair that if she decided on her own to have the child and then a year later in her rage stabs the kid with a knife. When it comes to innocent life, there is no exception to preserving it even if it's at a disadvantage to the caregiver. I'm pro life first of all and secondly both of my grandmothers were born of rape. What if their mothers decided to to kill them when they are newborn instead of having an abortion? aren't you forcing them to relive the rape all over again by forcing them to not kill their baby? says you. Also the Germans said the same thing about killing the Jews. rapists should get the death penalty in my opinion and if the mother doesn't want the child she can always adopt out the child. Newsflash, Einstein, when dealing with a religious subject, I'll link to religious sites. When dealing with a political subject, I'll post political sites. When dealing with science, I'll link to sites pertaining to science. Evidence?
Your god seems OK with killing anyone....you'll have to ask it why it is so confused. ...and the bible means nothing to me...just the law, which says a woman can abort for any reason When one studies the bible a lot they forget the Big Point...women should choose for themselves if they abort or not....good thing the bible doesn't rule It isn't fair of your god to punish anyone for what others do but he seems to like it... That doesn't answer my question, why are you hiding from it: AND how fair is it to punish a woman for being raped by forcing her to give birth to the rapist's kid? It's too bad you don't know the difference between abortion and murder, your confusion is clouding your responses.... For your information: Fetuses are not legal "persons" with rights. They are human. They are alive. They are NOT "persons" with rights. They would've been charged with murder......and sadly , your grandmothers did NOT HAVE A CHOICE (unless they wanted to take a chance on being maimed or killed in an abortion of the time) What an asinine thing to say born out of the ignorance of not knowing the difference between born and unborn.... No one is forced not to kill their baby, they can.....but they will go to jail... NO, the Anti-Choicers are using the same force and lust for power that rapists use by forcing women to have to go through 9 months of pregnancy and child birth just so the Anti-Choicers can feel all warm and fuzzy because a rapists exerted the ultimate control over the woman... Your appalling lack of compassion for the Jews by comparing the horrors they endured with what happens in abortion(where the death is quick and painless) is DISGUSTING.....but not surprising. Fetuses are not legal "persons" with rights. They are human. They are alive. They are NOT "persons" with rights. Jews were born persons with rights whether you think so or not... Why should she when she can just abort it....and NOT suffer through the pain and physical damage of pregnancy, the financial loss, the educational and career setbacks that you WANT her to suffer because someone else raped her....and YOU think that's fair...sickening, punishing women for being raped....do you rather they were stoned for being raped?????? Oh, look, there's the ever present oh-so-Christian name calling Your sites are so biased.....and prove nothing... It's throughout your bible, the bloodiest most violent book on record.... ... killing them willy nilly over something a man did....
As I linked earlier, there was a reason why he did it. then why are you here in a religious thread? Then go somewhere else where the legal aspect of abortion is being discussed. as I linked earlier, he had a legitimate reason in that instance. I'm not. As I said, when dealing with innocent life, it isn't about fairness. By your logic, a woman should also have the right to kill her newborn later on if she decides too late that she doesn't want the child. The only difference is the method (if that, many abortion procedures can be done outside the womb) and man' arbitrary definition of murder. Jews weren't considered persons either. your point and relevancy to a religious topic? The Germans said the same thing about Jews. I'm speaking hypothetically. If all things being equal (meaning that the law views abortion and murder the same thing, whether it be legal or illegal) why is it ok to abort but not kill the newborn? I do understand the difference. That's the definition of being forced. You are forced by law to pay taxes. I'll leave you to your hysteria and paranoia. I'm Jewish and the pain and suffering of the unborn is comparable to the horrors the Jews faced. Even if you're right about the painlessness and quickness of the death, how does that make it right? How is it even relevant to the point I was making? M point is just because a government declared something as not a person, doesn't mean that they are right. Nice deflection though. Do you even pay attention to what you type? Why were the Germans wrong for declaring Jews non persons but the SCOTUS is right for declaring the unborn as non persons? Again, it's better than killing an innocent life.
Blah, blah, blah just more : A. Women must be punished for being raped. B. You can't tell the difference between born and unborn C. You firmly believe that an aborted fetus suffered as much as Jews who were BORN people and you can't see how that denigrates what the Jews endured....seems like you sure want to minimize what Jews went through.....which cannot compare to what an abortion is. But there is a resemblance to what happened to the Jews...., YOU want women controlled, TOO. D. Thankfully the bible has nothing to do with abortion laws and women remain free to do as they please...
Evidence? please prove your unsupported claim. How is being born make it any different as to why the Germans were wrong and SCOTUS was right? [/quote] D. Thankfully the bible has nothing to do with abortion laws and women remain free to do as they please...[/QUOTE] Thanks for your irrelevant comment.
Totally relevant, it RULES : """Thankfully the bible has nothing to do with abortion laws and women remain free to do as they please""""" YOU: """How is being born make it any different as to why the Germans were wrong and SCOTUS was right? I have told you several times: Fetuses are not legal "persons" with rights. They are human. They are alive. They are NOT "persons" with rights. Jews were born persons with rights whether you think so or not... You firmly believe that an aborted fetus suffered as much as Jews who were BORN people and you can't see how that denigrates what the Jews endured....seems like you sure want to minimize what Jews went through.....which cannot compare to what an abortion is. But there is a resemblance to what happened to the Jews...., YOU want women controlled, TOO.
You stating so doesn't make it true nor does it answer my question. How come being born makes a difference between what the Germans considered persons and what SCOTUS considered persons?. No I Don't. I want to save innocent lives.
