The Canadian Red October

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by Spiritus Libertatis, Oct 19, 2015.

  1. Spiritus Libertatis

    Spiritus Libertatis New Member Past Donor

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    http://www.cbc.ca/includes/federalelection/dashboard/index.html

    Pierre Trudeau's son is now Prime Minister, and Canada's "natural ruling party", the Liberals, are back in charge, and with a majority. They can do whatever they want.

    What do they plan to do? Well, this:

    https://www.liberal.ca/realchange/

    Will they do it all? No clue. I'm a cynic so I doubt all of it, especially election reform (we desperately need proportional representation or STVs), will actually happen. I don't even like all of this platform. But it's better than the NDP's complete ignorance of non-social issues and the Conservatives pledge to literally not change anything.
     
  2. verystormy

    verystormy Active Member

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    Trust me, as a Brit now living in Oz which has PR, do NOT under any circumstances go down the PR route. It just causes a mess. We have members of the senate here that were elected with almost nobody voting for them. Then you get the mess that everything needs lots of backdoor dealing to get anything done. Not only has the government not being able to yet get the 2015 budget sorted, but a huge part of the 2014 one is still stuck trying to get deals done.
     
  3. Spiritus Libertatis

    Spiritus Libertatis New Member Past Donor

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    So what? It'd be better if 40% of the country were able to elect a majority government and then boss around the other 60%? I don't care if they "get things done", I want those "things" to actually be desired by most of the country.
     
  4. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Personally I prefer a system where I can vote for either or both the party of choice and the individual who will represent my riding.

    OTOH, PR does mitigate the underhandedness of gerrymandering. Getting rid of that underhanded practice would I believe have a major positive effect on results.
     
  5. Texas Republican

    Texas Republican Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This runs in cycles. Liberals win, screw up, and then conservatives are elected to clean up.
     
  6. Darkbane

    Darkbane Banned

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    I do find it funny the differences between liberals in canada and liberals in america... it seems the ones in canada acknowledge there is voter fraud and they want to do something to address it, but the ones in america are convinced it never happens and we shouldn't even attempt to prevent it, since you know, it never happens...

    I wonder if anyone has done a comparison of liberals and conservatives in the two countries to see what difference there are across a border... would be interesting to see if there are as many differences as I seem to be finding with just a quick glance...

    P.S. I'm looking over this child credit... holy crap... you guys literally pay people to have kids don't you... if we had this same plan in america people would pump out kids left and right... are you guys trying to encourage kids or whats going on there? I went to this website and it looks like a single mother of 4 kids would get close to $2000 a month??? is this right?!?!? am I understanding this wrong... it seems to be, the more kids I pump out, the more I get paid... holy cow dude... why are poverty stricken americans not RUSHING to become Canadian citizens immediately and pump out kids...

    https://www.liberal.ca/realchange/helping-families/

    man I can't believe americans don't become citizens just to make kids so they never have to work lol... why are mexicans stopping in america, go straight to canada!
     
  7. Texas Republican

    Texas Republican Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If anyone thinks this is some massive shift to the left, they're wrong. It's virtually impossible to win four elections in a row. People just grew tired of what they had. Time for a new wardrobe.
     
  8. Spiritus Libertatis

    Spiritus Libertatis New Member Past Donor

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    This country is far too large for its population. The only reason the population isn't declining is because of immigration. So yes, I suspect they are trying to encourage people to have more kids.
     
  9. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You got it backward. The neoliberal GOP ruled for 20 years, in the early 20th century, and crashed the world economies, giving us a worldwide great depression. The FDR progressives fixed the devastation of GOP neoliberalism, brought the disparity in income back to better, livable levels, and gave us social security so our old would not suffer so badly when they could no longer work.

    Then under the economy of FDR, we created the largest middle class the world had ever known, bringing prosperity to working people, while still allowing our rich class to exist in their great wealth.

    Then, Reagan, banking on the memory loss of working people, brought back GOP neoliberalism, which crashed our economy, once they deregulated banking, and for the last 35 years, have hollowed out our middle class and sent working people into poverty, just so the rich could pile their gold higher. They gave us the disparity in income we see today, right back to even worse than they did in the 1920s, and have left 100 million people who will never have a living wage job again.

    And so now, we have to wait for the FDR progressives, which are almost nonexistent today, except in Sanders, to fix what GOP neoliberalism broke, once again. Hopefully, with the internet, we will not suffer from memory loss this time, and the GOP will never be put into power again, to send this nation down the tubes, in order to make the rich, richer.

    You are voting for the party that does not represent you. Why do that? How have they fooled you? Not that the corporate owned democratic party is any better, but you need to get behind sanders, and help him clean out the cesspool in DC, and give the People their rightful power back, out of the hands of the oligarchs, which you have voted to empower.

    Feel the Bern, man, and vote in your own self interest for once in your life. Otherwise, your grandkids are gonna probably (*)(*)(*)(*) on your grave.
     
  10. CJtheModerate

    CJtheModerate New Member

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    In first-past-the-post elections, the national popular vote does not matter. A majority of ridings chose a Liberal to represent them.

    Then you don't want proportional representation. Coalition governments lead to concessions and backroom deals, which make the government less accountable and allows small parties to hold larger parties hostage.
     
  11. Spiritus Libertatis

    Spiritus Libertatis New Member Past Donor

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    Canada is odd in that we do not have coalition governments even though they are completely allowed. No one is willing to share power. So that isn't an issue.
     
  12. CJtheModerate

    CJtheModerate New Member

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    You can thank FPTP for that.
     
  13. Darkbane

    Darkbane Banned

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    why would they want that, keep the land the way it is so when nuclear war breaks out you'll have a ton of land and resources with few people... it'll be a paradise with climate change! lol
     
  14. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No, we have minority governments that depend on support from a second party to remain in power. Once that support is withdrawn the government is defeated and an election must be called.

    I doubt we'd ever have a coalition government in Canada, but with proportional representation it might be the only way to form a government if a whole bunch more political parties sprout up with enough overall support to qualify for seats.
     
  15. verystormy

    verystormy Active Member

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    Sadly, PR produces an even worse result - what you will end up with is what Oz has ended up with. First, the leading party, still only often has a small support, but then you get a bucket load of tiny parties - we have amongst others the "car enthusiast party". The guys then blackmail the main party in order to secure their support. We had a independent last election demand the government promise a new hospital. Even though his electorate already had a new hospital and the next town was in desperate need for one. He got his hospital. The government got his vote.
     
  16. waltky

    waltky Well-Known Member

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    Granny says when it's full moon...
    :grandma:
    ... Canucks come down here...

    ... to snatch people to live inna far north.
     
  17. Spiritus Libertatis

    Spiritus Libertatis New Member Past Donor

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    I'm not sure it would change regardless. No one is terribly interested in getting along.

    Even if a coalition was the only way, the government is at least representing most voters. I honestly don't really care what the downsides are to other electoral formats, I do not want to be told what to do by a government most people didn't even want. To be ruled by a minority is an oligarchy by definition.
     
  18. Texas Republican

    Texas Republican Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    1) The Great Depression was a result of a business cycle, and we would have recovered sooner if it wasn't for FDR expanding government.
    2) Reagan came in to clean up after years of liberal foolishness in the economy (Johnson/Nixon/Carter) and to rebuild the military after Carter's massive cuts. The economy boomed under Reagan.

    I'm not go into refute all of your allegations. I don't have time for that.
     
  19. Rerem

    Rerem New Member

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    right because the inevitable Repub screw ups, graft, recession, bigot crap..is what we want....dammit!

    If I am sick of my job... about then a Repub comes along and most folks got no job. But then they (*)(*)(*)(*)(*) so much about us living SO high on $100 in food stamps... that I'd rather have Democrats and a job.. and flip off the damn Repubs.
     

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