The Confederate battle flag

It does not. It represents the U.S.

 

If you are not a Native American, I suppose. To many around the world it still represent conquest.

 

Your argument is saying that the last chapter of the book is the whole book, essentially; this is sophomoric. The founding of the CSA was more complex and nuance. Instead of paying homage to the decades-long history that lead up to its creation, you point to the catalyst, the straw that broke the camel's back, disingenuously arguing that the catalyst was the sole basis, which is historically inaccurate. By creating this simple narrative, it's easy for you to attack it and justify the vandalism and the wimpish, gullible whites who accept this narrative as a justification for the removal of Confederate monuments and more. And these same whites don't understand that, with you people, it will not end with the removal of the monuments of Confederate history, as evidenced by your side vandalizing monuments of Washington, Jefferson, Grant, and Roosevelt.

 

You did not quote my whole sentence, which is clear to anyone with at least half a brain. I said that unless you can provide evidence that all blacks think that the Confederate flag means slavery, which you said, then what you said is racist.

 

You can tie any number of things to any number of flags. Invariably, you can create arguments by cherry picking failures and successes. Indeed, before the Emancipation Proclamation, slavery was legal under federal law. You could argue both flags represent slavery.

Though genocide is a black mark on our history, this isn't enshrined in the flag because genocide is not a founding principle of the US. The Confederate battle flag means only one thing, and that is the South's failed attempt to continue the practice of slavery.

 

This is relevant to students of history. The average person doesn't care what led up to the Civil War nor that slavery was merely the catalyst. No dishonor is being done by removing Confederate symbolism.

Vandals are idiots, and should be held accountable for their actions. Their actions only prove that extremism exists on both sides; they don't change the argument.

 

I fundamentally disagree. Not only is it dishonorable to remove the Confederate symbols based on simpleminded historical revisionism, it is a depressing display of moral cowardice, and it provides a dangerous precedent. Time and again it has been shown that when you give these people an inch, they will take a mile. This started out as the removal of Confederate monuments; now they are starting with the removal of commemorations of Washington, Jefferson, Grant, Roosevelt, and more. And soon that will gain traction in the mainstream, and their side, however long it takes, will be using the same justifications for the removal of those monuments as they are doing with those of the Confederacy. This is bigger than the Confederacy. And those who do not see it are not paying attention to the bigger picture that is right in front of their faces.

 

You said it not me.

 

And you're concerned about hurting their feelings.... How kindhearted of you....

 

I think the hysteria will settle down, sooner rather than later. Not honoring the Confederacy isn't the same as dishonoring it, and removing the symbolism from the public square is simply putting things the way they should have been.

 

Quote me saying that!

 

Okay.

The OP said:

You replied:

Give the context that you were arguing against the OP's argument that the Confederate flag means something different to different people, saying that it means the same thing to black people--slavery--logically means that you implied that all black people think that's what it means. This is blatantly racist.

 

Not one bit, just another of your strawmen. I'm just pointing out the obvious double standards.

 

Where does it say ALL black people believe this. Which is the operative part of your argument?

You quoted a general statement. If you don't know the difference, you have a communication problem. If it was just a strawman on your part, you have an argumentative problem.

Black people (in general), for the obvious historical reason, consider the confederate flag the symbol of oppression. First as a symbol of a war that was meant to keep them as slaves. And later "revived" in the mid 20th century, as a symbol of denying them the civil rights that other Americans enjoyed.

This is not a matter of taking a vote to count how many black people believe this, or how many don't know history. It's the only relevant historical fact behind the confederate flag.

 

Of course you don't!!! It was sarcasm. You didn't recognize it?

Oh God, you actually believed that somebody would think a Trump supporter was capable of being kindhearted????

Hilarious!

 

You never said "in general." Talk about historical revisionism! The OP said that the flag meant different things to different people, and you said that it means slavery to blacks, thus implying all black people. Qualifying your statement to mean that black people think it means slavery, in general, would be more in lockstep with the OP's point, thus making your point pointless. But even if you said "in general," which you did not, what does "in general" mean, specifically? And what are your sources to back up this claim? What percentage of black Americans think that it means slavery, exactly, and why should we be removing the monuments based on their opinion?

 

I never said anything different either. Why would you just assume that I know what every single black American thinks?

This is a rhetorical question. I know why: because you have no arguments. So your only recourse was attempting a strawman. Well... it didn't work. As a matter of fact, it backfired!

Now, having clarified that.... prove me wrong addressing my REAL point

It makes no difference what the confederate flag means to "different people". Only thing that matters in this debate is what it means to black people in general (not each and every one of them, though I think it idiotic to have to make this clear to you). It represents their historical repression. A Civil War to keep them as slaves first, then it just about disappeared from the mind of people, At which point it didn't mean much to most people Only as a historical event in history that divided this ONE country in two. And those who yearned for divisiveness glorified. Until it was revived in the late 1940s as a rallying symbol in defense of Jim Crow laws and opposition to Civil Rights for them. Which was a position more typical of white southerners in general (not each and every one of them. .. sad that i have to clarify this just so you don't go on a tangent with another lame strawman) but nothing to be "proud" about.

It's also relevant what it means to white supremacists. And that is the same as it means to black people as explained above. If they took over some sort of symbolism by those who only saw it as a sign of division, sorry... too late now. They should have done more to stop that from happening when they had a chance. They procrastinated themselves into irrelevance. Because today it's just a symbol of racism.

The Civil War was part of history. And as such belongs in museums and history books. As does the Jim Corw era. But the main reason why that war was fought is nothing to be proud of. Certainly nothing to glorify.

There you go. That's my argument. Making every attempt to try to keep you on track and away from strawman arguments and red herrings. But I am convinced that once you find yourself with no arguments again, strawman and red herrings is what we can expect from you.

 

I had that same route, weird huh?

 

Not the trolling part..

 

I have yet to see one person offended by my avatar, which is the Confederate Flag. It's seems as though blacks and most people in general don't even know what the Confederate Flag actually is.

 

I agree that not honoring is not the same thing as dishonoring. But vandalizing the monuments and legally removing them based on a false premise is dishonoring them; and that is what is happening right now; that is the reality.

Clearly, there is a disagreement between what should and should not be. Apparently, you think vandalizing these monuments because the legal process based on a false premise is taking too long is what should be.

 

Such pointless logorrheic historical revisionism! The OP said that it means something different to different people; you replied with a blanket statement: you said it means slavery to blacks, and now you are gaslighting, which you've historically done in this forum, qualifying your statement and pretending the future qualification was implied in the original point, which is logically invalid, given the context. You could have been humble, conceding, and said you were qualifying your statement, but instead you are trying to say you did not say something that you logically said.

Either way, you still have not explained what "in general" means, specifically. You still have not given me an exact percentage of what blacks think it is racist. And you still have not explained why we should remove those symbols based on that faction of blacks. And the idea that a faction, a certain percentage, of blacks can dictate what monuments can stay up and what can be removed flies in the face that the American system is built on the notions of white supremacy and white privilege, which is a leitmotif of your side.

 

We're talking about the Confederate battle flag....obviously. "Confederate flag" is shorthand for a symbol that actually deserves the shorthand "Slavery flag" to avoid ALL confusion.

 

Yes. And I have provided logical arguments showing that that is irrelevant to what is going on today with the protests and other actions. And, in general, to the meaning of the confederate flag as a symbol. Do you have something to counter those arguments? Let's see....

Nothing!

Thanks for playing anyway.

 

He also never said "all" which is what you claimed.

Stop trolling