Last year, a 100 watt incandescent bulb cost 79 cents. A replacement CFL costs $12 at Lowe's. There is no LED replacement yet but its cost is estimated at $70. A pound of R-12 refrigerant cost about a dollar before 40 FR 82. Now its not available at any price. Its replacement R-134a costs $40 for 20 ounces at Wal-Mart an $10/lb in industrial quantity. R-134a requires 12% more shaft HP for a given amount of refrigeration. Today's low-flow toilets take three or four flushes to do what one flush used to take. Today's zero-phosphate detergents require three or four cycles to get your clothes or dishes clean where detergents with phosphate got them clean in one cycle. Is it just me or have we really lost something?
I did like reading about the waterless toilets in a Florida school that flooded the entire school with (*)(*)(*)(*). Without water serving as a barrier sewer gas backed through and corroded the pipes.
Home Depot: $17.97 / 12 pack Cost of 20oz R-134a: $40.00 // maintaining the ozone layer: priceless Try updating your toilet. I had a TOTO 1.6GPF installed in our home and business in 1995/1999 respectively and have double-flushed maybe 5 times in those years. Yeah, we have "lost" the damage to the environment.
Are you denying that mercury's toxic effects are "unproven". Are you denying that the UV breaks the C-Cl bond in CCl[SUB]2[/SUB]F[SUB]2[/SUB] (R12) and that the Cl then bonds with O[SUB]3[/SUB] to form O[SUB]2[/SUB] and ClO? So show me what is "unproven".
...and all the argument over the ozone hole presumes that atmospheric scientists are sure there is not some other process (with which they are not cognizant) is not the real cause of the hole. It also requires you to bekieve that the ozone hole was not there before satellites found it in the 1970s. Since 40 CFR 82 was promulgated in 1990, the ozone hole has changed in neither area covered or in ozone concentrations. Looks like the US paid a huge price for nothing. I think the "ozone hole" was just a dry run for AGW. See how much of a lie people will believe. Try updating my toilet? Buy two toilets that don't work to replace one that did? Do you realize how dumb that sounds? I posted a link recently on how the Germans (among other things) embraced low-flow plumbing and now the sewers don't clear themselves. Result: Cities that stink. Maybe better yet: a business retrofitting low flow toilets that don't work with larger tanks to assure one-flush operation. The Germans embraced low-flow plumbing (I recently posted a link) and now their sewers don't clear. Result: Cities that stink.
No rational person denies the ozone depletion/CFC link. Only right wing partisan radicals try. And why shouldn't they? They're used to our nutty conservative MSM covering for them. The right can lie with impunity, so they do. The smoking gun of ozone depletion was found decades ago. CFC breakdown products, of which there are no natural sources, are found in high concentrations exactly where the ozone gets depleted. After that evidence came in, denying that CFC destroys ozone effectively became like denying cigarettes cause cancer. If you deny the CFC/ozone link, you reveal yourself as some combination of moron and brainwashed right-wing political cultist. Oh, it was literally the same group of people, the ones who were paid to deny cigarettes cause cancer, to deny that CFC's destroy ozone, and to now deny global warming. Some people just aren't very bright, being they keep falling for lies from the same people, solely because their political cult has ordered them to fall for the lies. As far as the toilets go, everyone have a bit a pity on taxcutter, given that he produces several times the excrement of an average person.
Mannie you had better sit down.....because I am going to agree with you on 3 out of 4 points Regarding the low flow toilet, you are both right. the first ones were crap and couldn't flush a spider web. But like you I have an updated one and I love it. Now where I live the water supply is not an issue and it is quite cheap (like $20/mo.) but what i like is that this thing is ready for the second (and third if necessary) flush about 5 seconds after the first....very cool. RE the CFC's i don't know enough to argue that issue, but the cost for changing refrigerants is insignificant....not like you have to re-charge your AC every month I don't think anyone can argue that Phosphates had to go, and again the price was more than reasonable. But I will side with TC on the curly light bulbs... First of all, they are supposed to save energy...right. Now you can get cheap ones like you say, BUT have you ever touched one of them? They are every bit as hot as the incandescent bulbs. And the cheap ones don't last any longer than the old style either. Now you can get cool long lasting ones, but they DO cost like TC says. Also you must remember that the "waste" heat from incandescent bulbs is not wasted at all if it is winter time and you are heating your home anyway...... Finally, don't these curly bulbs have 5 mg of MERCURY in them so you must "Dispose of Properly", not simply throw them in the trash??? Gimmie a break. 90% of these bulbs made means 5 mg Hg each right into the environment. Phosphate, the Ozone layer, efficient toilets, they all had a goal where the gain was more than worth the cost. These screw bulbs are just more Obama ignorance.......
Phosphates were a very limited problem during short time periods in two areas only. They did not present a national water pollution problem. Now I have to go out and separately buy industrial-strength trisodium phosphate (TSP) and put a shake of it into every load of clothes or dishes in order to get them clean. As I posted in another post, sewage lines have a relatively shallow pitch and require a certain water flow to convey the waste to the sewage treatment plant. Without enough flow the waste stops and hardens in the sewer lines, requiring excavation to access clogs. Bad idea. Even when the lines have not yet clogged, the waste accumulates and the sewer line vents stink. The cost of changing refrigerants was not the big cost involved, despite the fact the replacement costs ten times as much as the original. The major cost was that every single refrigeration compressor in the nation had to be changed to accommodate the R-134a. Good news for Trane, Carrier, and Johnson Controls (who owns York), and the foreign air conditioner manufacturers. Bad news for consumers.
