The faithfull represent their religion whether they want to or not.

Whether we realize it or not our proclamation of faith represents our associated theology. When one claims to be a follower of (insert deity/s here) their actions then represent (insert religion here) to everyone else. Its kinda like my being an American living in Canada. Once I declare that I am an American I understand that my actions can have an impact upon how Canadians view America and Americans in general. If I act like an ignorant buffoon I understand that some Canadians will say "typical of American behavior", but if I am respectful toward the culture I am in I understand some Canadians may say "perhaps those Americans are not as bad as I had thought".

When I see The Salvation Army tending to the needs of the downtrodden I see Christianity at its best... and when I see the westboro baptist church picketing the funerals of soldiers I see Christianity at its worst. So be careful how you act in society as your actions can and do represent your faith. This is true for whatever associations we have, but as religion seems to want to bring people into the fold its probably better to not drive people off with judgment and intolerance.

I am not a Christian but sampled many flavors of Christianity. I see so much beauty in the religion but sadly to find it you have to cut through all the ugliness.

(Robert steps off soapbox)

 

The really sad thing about it is that lots of proclaimed christians only seem to realize they are religious when topics of sexual equality come up. The only part of religion they seem to get are the parts that tell them its okay to hate or control others.

They send a pretty clear message, and it smells to high heaven.

 

Christian have been fighting each other since Peter met Paul. And muslims have been fighting each other since Mohammed bit the dust. Life would be dull if people couldn't fight over which version of their favorite imaginary deity is the real one.

 

I see Muslim wars everywhere, were are these 'Christian' wars?

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What smells to high heaven is your name-calling, because some people don't approve of sodomy doesn't equate to 'hate' or control.

 

with respect, Paul, you can only 'disapprove' of such things for YOURSELF. to be even remotely bothered by the personal and private inclinations of others - when it's something which hurts no one - is utterly fruitless, and takes your focus away from the important things. Christians spend huge amounts of otherwise good clean energy on 'disapproving' of entirely the wrong things.

 

Most wars, the Crusades, the Inquisitions, 9/11, blowing up girl's schools, the suppression of women and homosexuals, arranged marriages to minors, ethnic cleansing, the systematic raping of children, human sacrifice, burning witches, suicide bombings, condoning slavery.....if one can just overlook a few things religion has never done any harm. Don't give me that standard speech about how Christianity is the right way to heaven. Who would want to go to heaven anyway? They'd have to hang around with a bunch of Christians and the fun people would be absent. Screw that gated community and singing hymns.

 

I take it that you assume that I am Christian? If so you must be new to the R&P section of the forums.

 

I imagine heaven as full of nerdbergs who never had any fun while alive, sitting at the god's feet (his feet are REALLY big) singing really lame church 'rock' ballads - the men waving their lady-hands around, and the morbidly obese women carefully avoiding any sort of jiggle. when they're not doing that, they're tsk-tsking along with the god at all the incorrect use of pink bits down here on earth.

whatever it takes to avoid that fate, is alright by moi. since all it DOES take is avoidance of allowing oneself to be corrupted by religion, and remaining focused on things that matter (humanity and the planet), it should be no problem. I'll be with the funner folk downstairs, knocking back slightly warm pinot noir and nibbling aged cheddar.

 

Religion has always been a powerful force in human society. It will eventually lose that power. When it does, when humanity is completely secular it will be interesting to see how things work out. It will probably be okay, since loss of superstitions is gradual the impact would not be so severe as if it were taken away in one fell swoop. Now, from that on the other side of the ledger, religion has been a humanising feature as well as being something that can be used an excuse to play merry hell. I'm not a believer, just a boring agnostic but I can see, without stretching too hard, that religion has been a good thing for humankind. Like any other tool or artefact that we have as humans, it's how we use it that counts.

A question I ask myself at times, "which came first, the cultural practice/prejudice/hatred and so on, or the religion?" Many times the bad things are already embedded in a society, its religion can be easily co-opted to give approval to the object of hate/derision or the practice that hurts and not heals, And then there have been some wicked things we humans have done that have been wiped out by religion. I realise this is a huge over-simplification but without evangelical Christianity I doubt if human slavery in the British Empire would have been abandoned as quickly as it was. Without Christian ideas concerning the treatment of children in Britain (see Lord Shaftesbury - This difficult childhood was softened by the affection he received from his housekeeper Maria Millis, and his sisters. Millis provided for Ashley a model of Christian love that would form the basis for much of his later social activism and philanthropic work - Wikipedia) then reform may not have been made so broadly and, when it did hit, swiftly.

 

Recently one of my HS graduating class sent out a little fun questionnaire. One of the questions was "What Is Your Idea Of Heaven?" Knowing full well what I was doing I wrote this little epistle about it being a place for squares and said I did not want to go there. Half of the class won't speak to me or E Mail with me.

They can dish it out but they can't take it. Nearly every one of them believes they have a personal relationship with the creator of the universe when in reality they couldn't get an audience with their local mayor.

Many of them are rich and half of the rest have a lot of savings.....I guess they didn't read the story of Lazarus.

 

Not approving privately seems fine to me, setting a personal example and living by your own beliefs is not an issue, at least with me. If thats what you are talking about you are correct, it doesn't equal hate or control.

My point is that there are many people who haven't cracked a bible or stepped into a church in years, who call on god to justify what is nothing but bigotry. They make it appear to most people that that is all that religion is about. I can't understand truly religious people who feel this is acceptable.

I suspect that a lot of this is because the media is not going to get the same numbers from interviewing religious people focused on the idea of gods love. More people will watch a religious leader who talks about condemnation and judgement.

This serves the media, not christianity.

 

you mean the Crusades, inquisitions, ect...... both Christians and Muslims have much "convert or kill" in their histories

 

And why wouldn't they? According to the bible that's exactly what their god is like. It preaches that a whole lot more will be judged and condemned than will be saved. That's highlighted more than any other point it makes:

Matthew 7:

13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat.

14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

 

So wouldn't the prudent thing be to make sure you're one of the saved? The fact few do that is consistent with what we see in many areas of life, lots of people do dumb things like not saving for retirement, eat junk food, don't work out, etc.

 

My question was present tense, I take it you can't come up with any Christian wars today? Your analogy fails as the Inquisition went directly against the teachings of Jesus, the Jihadists act according to the word and deed of the 'prophet'. Although there were abuses as there are in all wars, the Crusades are much more of a gray area, see: http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/Games-Muslims-Play.htm#crusades

Note by the Muslims own reasoning the Crusades were justified, they feel they have the right to recover by force any territory that they once controlled.

 

Then life should be dull. No fighting. Agreed?

 

Tell that to the stupid Palestinians. Those people have their heads so far up their kazoo that they'll never see daylight or smell fresh air again.

 

Why don't you show us your faith? While you're at it heal a few lepers and drink a little poison. Maybe these are the few who will be saved.....ever think of that?

Mark 16
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

 

Is is that you don't want to talk about it?



[video=youtube;iUdc5h10zTo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUdc5h10zTo[/video]

 

So how do you know if you're saved?

If someone decides to get fit, eat well, and save for retirement, there are real, palpable results to track, and a tangible goal - easily seen and verified.

 

A person's faith is between them and their deity. It doesn't matter how well or bad someone represents a religion that I do not practice, nor does it concern me that a Canadian may think poorly of the US based on one encounter with an American. People who are that malleable are kind of a bore, and certainly not worth bowing down before to garner their approval.

 

Jesus was talking to the apostles about deeds they would later do. Paul did in fact, handle and was bitten by a poisonous snake and lived.

[Ac 28:1] Once safely on shore, we found out that the island was called Malta. [2] The islanders showed us unusual kindness. They built a fire and welcomed us all because it was raining and cold. [3] Paul gathered a pile of brushwood and, as he put it on the fire, a viper, driven out by the heat, fastened itself on his hand. [4] When the islanders saw the snake hanging from his hand, they said to each other, "This man must be a murderer; for though he escaped from the sea, Justice has not allowed him to live." [5] But Paul shook the snake off into the fire and suffered no ill effects. [6] The people expected him to swell up or suddenly fall dead, but after waiting a long time and seeing nothing unusual happening to him, they changed their minds and said he was a god.

 

You may as well ask how do you know you're in love. Having a relationship with the person of Jesus Christ is a start.

How do you know someone is fit enough or has enough savings?

 

This might be because so many find it more enjoyable to think of others in eternal torment than to show them love. Maybe to get in you have to be the type that resist judging others and feeling self righteous.

Certainly seems to be few of those around, religious or otherwise.

 

This thread is not about approval, its a cautionary tale of we are judged by our actions which can reflect badly upon our affiliations.. If one claims to love Christ then judges all who are not Christians, this reflects badly on Christianity in general. On the other side those Christians that act to aid humanity garner much respect for Christianity and I doubt they are bowing to anything other than God.