The fog of war

Just how foolish was Trump's political decision regarding Jerusalem?

We are all very much aware of the threat ISIS and Al Qaeda is to the Western nations. There have been countless attacks by these terrorist organizations in Western cities, and the threat is not going away anytime soon. The threat Islamic extremism poses to Muslims is far more severe. Trump has promised to defeat these organizations, particularly ISIS, and we have a willing ally, the Muslim nations in the Middle East. Or we did, past tense.

His decision dealt a severe blow to his aspirations. We need the help of the Muslim nations to defeat ISIS and Al Qaeda. Without their help, both these terrorist organizations will get stronger and more lethal. His decidedly domestic political decision concerning Jerusalem severely angered the Muslim nations as can be seen by the Arab League statement (post #149). How this will effect the fight against Islamic extremists is difficult to determine, but it certainly can be argued Trump's decision was at cross purposes of that struggle.

As difficult as it is to imagine, it gets worse. Iran is our enemy. Trump knows that. Iran is also the enemy of the Arab nations, particularly Saudi Arabia, Jordan, and Egypt. They are our allies in the region, and they are the very nations Trump angered the most.

These nations regard Iran as more of a threat than Israel. Why is that? While Israel possesses the strongest military in the region, the Arab nations do not regard Israel as a threat to their sovereignty.

With their arc of influence from Tehran to Baghdad to Beirut to Damascus, Persian Iran is considered a dangerous threat to the sovereignty of the Arab nations.

Trump just drove a stake through the heart of the American/Arab alliance against Iran.

 

For the most part, the replies from Trump fans have been as moronic as this one. Apparently, this guy voted for Trump, too. That explains a lot.

True, according to people of Israel. The followers of Islam, the Arab League, our Western allies, China, Russia, and the Security Council have a different point of view. To hell with them, right? The Donald has spoken.

It is not a fact. Most everyone who didn't vote for Trump know that the status of Jerusalem is an integral part on the Middle East peace process, and Trump's unilateral decision is a disaster while removing the U.S. from the peace process.

Typical statement from a Trump fan. He doesn't explain why it is gutsy. What will be achieved by the gutsy decision beyond unintended consequences that are happening as we speak. Nor does he explain why every President except Trump knew exactly why they should not make this announcement. For details, see post #101. However, that post may prove too complicated for the typical Trump supporter.

Now, just for good measure, this guy explains what a callous and brave S.O.B. he is. Four have been killed -- many observers feel that is under-reported -- and hundreds have been injured, including children. All of this is a direct result of Trump's decision.

But our daunting poster considers this "no different than any other day."

Incredible we allowed people like this guy decide our President. We are living the nightmare of that decision.

 

that would explain it.

 

What's going to change?

 

Yes....You'd love to have the US caving to Islamic bullying, wouldn't you?

 

And there you are, warmongering against a country that hasn't committed a single terrorist act against the US or Europe, and isn't threatening the Western world.

After the two completely pointless wars against Irak and Syria that is, organized by your globalist buddies.

Then you'll have the gall to claim that "nationalism is war".

Globalism is war.

 

Well, I could just be an uneducated hick from the back woods, but I kinds got the idea that any given country gets to choose where their capital is going to be. I must not be up on that thar Libl thinkn.

Let's see, the U.N. (League of Nations, whatever it was) set up Israel and now it's changed its mind? Indian giver.

A peace process takes two sides. The Arabs have never really been committed to it. Ya know, when they hold massive rallies shouting "DEATH TO ISRAEL", you get a little nervous about lletting them pat you on the back without wearing a Kevlar vest.

Do you really believe Trump had no idea that there would be upset Arabs? Open a window, get some fresh air in there.

A string of U.S. Presidents, supposedly, supported the move. Lip service without action is just politics. If you ain't gonna do nuttin, shut up.

Unfortunately, my vote for Trump had no effect; I live in Illinois.

 

So did Roosevelt. Anyone that didnt agree with him was fired.

 

Hitler forced them to flee Germany or put them in concentration camps.

 

The OP is proof positive that the left is not interested in what is best for America. They only want what they want for themselves.

 

True. Roosevelt restricted that treatment to Asians.

 

You must have agreed to my analysis. Your reply was sending cartoons.

 

The OP has nothing to do with the left. Another Trump fan who agrees with my analysis. He didn't challenge a thing I said.

 

Because what you said is poppycock. No need to challenge poppycock.

 

Don't allow Trumpians to change the subject. They always want to do that when faced with the reality that, once again, Trump did something incredibly stupid.

 

Really? How so? You didn't bother to explain.

You can't. My analysis was right on and you know it. It is why you provide only stupid posts.

 

If it waddles, quacks and looks like a duck.....
You sir are a left wing duck

There's nothing new here - Muslims protesting and rioting have been going on for several generations.

What peace process are you talking about - there has been no peace and never will be any peace as long as Palestinian leadership continues to attack Israel in word and deed. Process is defined as "a series of actions, changes, or functions bringing about a result" - beyond a few words and no actions coming from the Palestine Authority, all of the actions, changes or functions have been made by Israel with nothing being gained in return.

You left wingers are blind in your support of a failed regime with a failed doctrine.

 

Your post is poppycock along with your analysis. There is no proof to back what you are saying.

 

That is a highly simplistic statement of events. It is far more complicated than that. Trust me, you don't want to go there. Books have been written on the subject.

The IDF has killed far more Palestinians than the other way around. The PLF and Hamas have damaged some property in Israel.The IDF has destroyed a great deal of property in Palestinian hands.

Palestinians shout epitaphs. The Israelis kill and destroy.

Unless Trump was completely ignorant of Middle East politics, Trump knew exactly what would happen if he declared Jerusalem the capital of Israel. He knew it would be like pouring gasoline on the Middle East fire. As riots are breaking out in cities across the region, Trump is not the least bit surprised at the reaction to his pronouncement. He is not that stupid.

He went ahead and did it anyway. Why? Trump gave us the answer in his announcement. He said, "Therefore, I have determined that it is time to officially recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. While previous presidents have made this a major campaign promise, they failed to deliver. Today, I am delivering."

Just to make sure everyone got the message, Trump couldn't help himself. He had to brag about his achievement again while trying to shame his predecessors, again. “I fulfilled my campaign promise — others didn’t,” he tweeted.

Trump made his disastrous decision to fulfill a campaign promise to his base, evangelicals and his Jewish donors.

 

For a quarter century I voted Republican. Then along came Donald.

I am a moderate conservative, not a Republican robot who would vote for David Duke if the GOP nominated him. I am one of millions of conservatives who think Trump is incompetent, stupid, and dangerous.

 

Seems another popular method of diversion is to dump as big a load of manure as possible on the public lawn, and point to others so people won't realize that the real crap is coming from from those doing the dumping.

 

Gee, maybe simple is better.

Gee, ya think maybe the Israelis wouldn't be killing people that are attacking them if people weren't attacking them?

Are you aware that you just endangered your Fanatic Liberal status by opining that Trump "is not that stupid"? Be careful, now.

Are you actually praising Trump for keeping a campaign promise or praising other Presidents for not keeping campaign promises?

 

Scrap those plans to re-create the nativity in situ, because the State Department is urging U.S. citizens to avoid travel to Israel. The move comes after President Trump announced that he was officially recognizing Jerusalem as the capital of Israel and would move the U.S. embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. The move drew condemnation from world leaders (including the Pope) and put the Middle East on edge. Both Israel and Palestine consider the holy city of Jerusalem to be their capital.

In response, the State Department has issued a “worldwide caution,” warning travelers about threat of “terrorist actions, political violence, and criminal activity against U.S. citizens and interests abroad.” While the update did not specially mention Jerusalem or the president’s announcement, earlier in the week the department urged U.S. citizens to avoid Jerusalem’s Old City and the West Bank over fears of protests and violent reaction to the president’s announcement.

https://www.fastcompany.com/4050512...-travel-alert-after-trumps-jerusalem-decision

The last time the state department issued a worldwide caution alert because of a Presidential decree was March, 2003, because of Bush's illegal invasion of Iraq.

Why do Republican Presidents become a danger to our national security?

 

Trump and his followers say that is the case. As is their custom, they ignore reality and history. They take a very complex issue and try to make it simple. Such a practice is a reflection of their daily lives. Let's take a look at that history.

During its long history, Jerusalem has been attacked 52 times, captured and recaptured 44 times, besieged 23 times, and destroyed twice. The oldest part of the city was settled in the 4th millennium BCE, making Jerusalem one of the oldest cities in the world.

Given the city's central position in both Israeli nationalism and Palestinian nationalism, the selectivity required to summarize more than 5,000 years of inhabited history is often influenced by ideological bias or background (see Historiography and nationalism). For example, the Jewish periods of the city's history are important to Israeli nationalists, whose discourse states that modern Jews descend from the Israelites and Maccabees, while the Islamic periods of the city's history are important to Palestinian nationalists, whose discourse suggests that modern Palestinians descend from all the different peoples who have lived in the region. As a result, both sides claim the history of the city has been politicized by the other in order to strengthen their relative claims to the city, and that this is borne out by the different focuses the different writers place on the various events and eras in the city's history.

The United Nations proposed, in its 1947 plan for the partition of Palestine, for Jerusalem to be a city under international administration. The city was to be completely surrounded by the Arab state, with only a highway to connect international Jerusalem to the Jewish state.

Following the 1948 Arab-Israeli War, Jerusalem was divided. The Western half of the New City became part of the newly formed state of Israel, while the eastern half, along with the Old City, was occupied by Jordan.

East Jerusalem was captured by the Israel Defense Forces during the 1967 Six Day War. The status of East Jerusalem remains a highly controversial issue. The international community does not recognize the annexation of the eastern part of the city, and most countries, including the US, maintain their embassies in Tel Aviv.

The United States Congress has pledged to move its embassy to Jerusalem, subject to Presidential approval, which has not been forthcoming as the peace process continues.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Jerusalem#Division_between_Jordan_and_Israel_(1948–1967)

This brief history shows what many of us knew already. Jerusalem's status is a very complex issue, subject to negotiations between interested parties, and cannot be decided by any one man, even if he is the President of the United States.

 

No, it's really very simple. If the Arabs had stuck to the original structure instead of attacking before the ink was dry, maybe it would still be as it was. Once the other side sends their military across the border and loses, they get whatever the victor wants to give them. Knowing the past is great. Appreciating the present is essential.It all has to do with reality.