The mufti of Jerusalem calls the Muslims to kill Jews

If you don't I could say you have a vivid imagination or are an outright liar.

 

Um no, they werent invented in the 70s. Thats just daft propaganda re the pLO using a quote that is directly contradicted by both British and Ottoman historical record. Political consciousness among the arabs of palestine arose in the late 19th century.

I think one can easily find ottoman maps that detail Palestine. Its pretty much how the British came to the same characterisation of the area when they took over.

As for 'Palestinians' in ottoman documents, I doubt if actual Syrians or lebanese are mentioned either. Certainly Israelis are not mentioned. So really your argument doesnt stand up because the premise youre using is faulty.

Moreover arguing that the somehow palestinians dont exist because they referred to themselves as arabs is exactly like telling us Israelis dont exist because previously they only referred to themselves as Jewish. Its a difficult assertion to make.

 

Fascinating. What exactly am I lying about or having a vivid imagination about?

Are you saying youd like to have a proper debate over some point of fact that will make it worth my while writing extensive detailed comment for? I hope so, its been awhile since you guys have really wanted to debate something concrete.

 

That there was a Palestinian before the 70's.

 

Why isnt the simple fact of Palestine enough to confirm that there was?

Is there something else your looking for? It seems you're demanding that there be Palestinians in the exact way or sense you have in mind.

 

You either have an active imagination or your an outright liar.

 

Riiight.


So basically what youre saying is, we had a Palestine, we also had people who had lived for centuries on Palestine, including Jewish, Arab Muslim and Arab Christian.

But despite all that there were no actual Palestinians. Because according to you, Ottoman records refer only to the land rather than the people.

Isnt it you who has the vivid imagination or penchant for lying?

 

They had Palestinian currency, Palestinian postage stamps and Paletinian Newspapers.

 

So the Palestinian Jews were not Arabs unlike the Muslims and Christians?

 

British ones you mean. Not to mention they were all valid in Jordan as well, so back to Jordan arabs

 

Well they probably wouldnt like the term arab applied to them, but perhaps youre right.

 

Um no, not British. The area was held in trust by the British, meaning it wasnt actually British.

And the arabs didnt mostly come from Jordan.

 

Ah so you are doing them a favour! I think you may be wrong though, I don't think Arab Jews had anything against being termed Arab at the time. Its since then that Arab and Jew identities have become mutrually exclusive thanks to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict and the subsequent polarisation. Maybe something similar will happen with Christian Arabs with Islamic resurgence and subsequent polarisation between the West and the Islamic world.

 

Good point.

I wasnt trying to do them a favour, the problem is it all depends exactly what jews and where we are talking about.

The arab jew identity is still strong. But im not sure how many such existed in palestine in the pre 48 era.

 

According to me, you haven't provided any proof that palestinians existed prior to the 70's. You are the one making the assertion so the proof is for you to provide.

 

Yes a province if you will, an area of the undivided Middle East.
Because this area was probably less important than any in the other sections, the official maps of the ottoman Empire did not mention Palestine....

Click here

http://bit.ly/qCgRd1

 

When 1+1=3




http://www.virtualjerusalem.com/blogs.php?Itemid=4925

 

A broken link is supposed to prove what?
Besides the argument isn't whether or not there is a territory called Palestine but whether or not that prior to the 70's there were people called Palestinians.

 

That's not an argument either. People don't just suddenly popup from nowhere, unless one is a Zionist retard maybe, and it is well documented that Palestinians lived there before the 70's, regardless of Zionist racism, denial and/or unconditional stupidity.

 

Of course I have, the proof is this;

In an area widely known as Palestine, there live and lived a goodly number of people. In this area they built towns and cities and roads, they were of the Jewish, Muslim and Christian faith.

Therefore they were all Palestinians.

Later, a new state called Israel was formed out of most of this. Despite there being record of an ancient kingdom of Israel, there are few records, if any, document with the word 'Israelis'. Therefore by your own argument there are no Israelis prior to 48.

 

Of course they like anyone else, Jews, Christians, Arabs and other denominations were using Ottoman/Turkish currency... Palestine newspaper was owned by Jews...

 

Does that work? Lets try: In an area widely known as The Levant, there live and lived a goodly number of people. In this area they built towns and cities and roads, they were of the Jewish, Muslim and Christian faith.

Therefore they were all Levantines. Well you might think so but language doesn't always follow simple rules or logic like antisemitism doesn't mean discrimination against Semites but against Jews. Here Levantines refer too to a small section of the larger population, the Latin Catholics and not all of those living in the region.

There are lots of other examples where regions don't have a name of the people living there derived from the region's name, for example The Low Countries or Benelux.

I think you may be right though that Israelis is a modern term for citizens
of Israel, the ancient term being Israelites.

 

If it's well documented then how come nobody can provide the documentation here? Your making things up again.

 

I prefer using the word Israelite. I have no idea why people changed it to Israelis.

 

Interesting point, and indeed Levantines would be appropriate if it were ever used by anyone other than the small group you refer to.

In the case of the larger group, Palestinians is appropriate for the simple reasons that that is what the people there who have lived there the longest continuously choose to be called.

But yes indeed, israelis by Slyhunters own argument, dont exist or rather they have no right to be called such etc etc. All because they made it up around 1948.

Much the same for Americans too. Maybe we should just call Americans europeans instead for the most part.