The Real Noah's Ark

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Colonel K, Aug 16, 2015.

  1. Colonel K

    Colonel K Well-Known Member

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    A fascinating doco about an eccentric professor type (who happens to be the world expert on cuneiform script) and a tablet he was sent that decribes the Noah fable, but 1200 years before Noah!

    https://vimeo.com/106758421
     
  2. cupid dave

    cupid dave Well-Known Member

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    Noah's ark story may well have used the once well known Sumerian tale here as a vehicle to speak to peoples who knew the old tale and believed it.
    The Ark of Noah in the Bible is preceded with a genealogy that lists the 22 kinds of what we call species.
    It was those Neanderthals which died in the extinction that took place 40 durations of time exactly when modern man spread across the whole world, out of Africa.

    My case for seeing the flood story as a factual account about what happened as modern man came to exist was based upon:

    1) Genetic evidence proves man, by an Act-of-God, was evolved by a mutation which fused two of the 24 chromosome ape mother.

    2) Then 22 "kinds" of humans are kisted in Genesis genealogy that correspond with the 22 names in the now extinct human species.

    3) Then evidence shows that Noah had three breeds of sons 100 millennia before the great "flood out-of-Africa"

    4) Then 40 millennia ago, these three breeds flooded the whole world, even up the mountains, while Neanderthals disappeared forever.

    5) The genetic evidence supports this idea, that all people alive today are related to just one man who lived 40-60 thousand years ago.

    6) Mitochondria genetics support the all people alive also had a common mother 150,000 years ago, as Gen 5:31 agrees.

    7) The three breeds of sons compares well with the theories of breeding or racial identifications, and that further supports the story.
    There is a "box" around the heads of Modern Homo sapiens, an "ark" which contains all the thoughts about the animals and the world as we know it.
    This box was the idea of an Ark.

    This list of corresponding facts and biblical ideas may be coincidental for you, but they were offered to us as explanation for what actually happened.
    "Coincidence" is pretty far fetched when the details are reinforced by Genetics, and Anthropology, Paleontology, and Scripture, all agreeing here.
     
  3. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    We may have dates or timelines wrong, we may be misinterpreting what the Flood actually was but its not in the Bible for any reason other than some context to the historical account of the interaction between God and man. When you read about the Flood you are supposed to be understanding the meaning, not fixating on dates. If that is what you are doing then you are wasting your time reading it.
     
  4. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    And so it has proved. Over the years, cuneiform flood tablets have continued to turn up. Three distinct Mesopotamian incarnations of the myth have now been identified, one recorded in Sumerian and two in Akkadian. It has become clear that the tale of a universal flood was widespread in Mesopotamia for an entire millennium and a half before the hapless Judaeans, defeated in the early 6th century BC by Nebuchadnezzar, were dragged away from their smoking cities into exile, there to weep beside the rivers of Babylon. Now, courtesy of Irving Finkel, the British Museum's eminence grise of cuneiform studies, there comes a further clinching piece of evidence: a tablet that actually describes animals entering an ark "two by two". Not only that, but it offers startlingly precise specifications on how best to construct one.

    An ark, so the tablet instructs us, should properly be circular in shape, have an area of 3,600 metres, and be fashioned out of plant fibre. All those living in the Somerset Levels may wish to take note.

    http://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/feb/13/ark-before-noah-irving-finkel-review
     
  5. cameron

    cameron New Member

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    The video showing the circular ark is full of errors.

    You are aware of their first problem when water leaked and they had to use a water pump to pull the water out.

    But, such is not the main problem for that circular ark.

    You notice that the new "Noah" tested the circular ark is a sunny day.

    Raining hard for forty days and forty nights will sink that circular ark because top and bottom should have been water proof. The top of that circular ark will easily collect water as in a tea cup. Notice the edge around that ark helping for a sure retention of water on the top of it.

    _____________________________________________________________________________________

    When the real event of Noah and the ark happened, the generations following Noah received as oral tradition the relate of the event.

    People split to different parts of Pangaea. Eventually Pangaea split in parts called continents.

    When writing communication was invented, the new generations wrote what "they remembered" from the inherited oral traditions.

    No matter who wrote it first or last.

    Generations located in different places of the world inherited those oral traditions.

    For this reason, the name of Noah appears different for each culture, because each new generation in other places has changed language and the way to give names.

    This is not uncommon even later in history. The biblical names of the kings of Israel are known by us thru the bible, but in those former eras in Egypt and Babylon, the same kings of Israel were called with different names. Historians know about this scenario, and they know that they have to match the names in order to coordinate the historical events.

    Then, Noah can be called different by Babylonians thru their different generations. This is not a surprise but it is understood, because humans have the tendency to suffer of lots of details missing when "memorizing".

    Witness have different versions of the description of the dude who committed a robbery after years of questioning. On the next day they said it was a tall dude, after ten years they remember it was a medium size dude, first was Asian, ten years later it was probably Hispanic, and so forth. What will have influence is the new environment, plus a kind of amnesia.

    Regardless of all these problems, the point is that the event is confirmed by more and more witness.

    Rather than diminishing the biblical narration, these new discoveries about Noah and the flood are confirming that this historical event happened. The biblical narration has been vindicated one more time.
     
  6. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    I couldn't get the video to load so I went looking for other information on Irving Finkel..

    The Bible narrative a myth.. an epic fairy tale about what was just a river flood that lasted 4 days and covered and area 150 miles wide and 350 miles long.
     
  7. cameron

    cameron New Member

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    Margot2, playing childish?

    Come on, lets get mature.

    Of course one can use other sources, but the topic here is about the video shown in the first message.

    This "expert" in cuneiform writings, the professor of the video- is not that good as people think.

    An ark is a box, a coffer, a chest.

    He thought it was a "round boat", and Noah's ark was never a boat.

    This "expert" built a round boat with the correspondent edge to avoid people standing on the top of it sliding to the water due to motion, something that wasn't necessary in the real Noah's ark.

    The pictures from below are taken from the video.

    Look at them.

    The round ark

    FILE0243.jpg

    The new "Noah" getting inside his boat. Check the resemblance to a boat.

    FILE0244.jpg

    This so called "ark" will collect water like crazy and will sink after raining 40 days and 40 nights

    FILE0245.jpg

    There it goes the legendary new ark...

    FILE0246.jpg

    For sure this dude is way out from what the real ark was about, but he has earned his 15 minutes of fame, he deserves claps for his good acting, very well played... the video itself is fantastic.
     
  8. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    Samuel Noah Kramer spent 50 years translating clay tablets from Sumer.

    The big flood was in the Euphrates river basin fed by snow melt out of the mountains and heavy rain.. The "Ark" was a string of flat barges hauling beer, grain and livestock down river. .. circa 2900 BC. It flooded the marshes south of Basra so the barges ended up in the Persian Gulf. Ever been there? There is a flood footprint 150 miles wide and 350 miles long.. It probably flooded with some frequency because that's how the delta at Shatt al Arab built up.
     
  9. cupid dave

    cupid dave Well-Known Member

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    perhaps....
    But there actually was a "flood."
    The flood was modern man, out-of-Africa, 40 millennium ago,... not "days" as the interpreters translated the Hebrew word "yowm."


    www. anthro.palomar.edu/homo2/mod_homo_4.htm

    The replacement model of Christopher Stringer and Peter Andrews:
    This hypothesis is also referred to as the "out of Africa", "Noah's ark" and "African replacement" model in the field of modern Paleontology.

    From this view, the regional anatomical differences that we see among humans today are recent developments--evolving mostly in the last 40,000 years.
     
  10. cupid dave

    cupid dave Well-Known Member

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    What was different in the Hebrew story was the focus on a list of what we might best call 22 species of ancestors before the "flood" which according to both Science and Genesis went extinct in the "flood" of Modern man who was spreading even up the mountains.

    Those earlier Myths, of course, spoke about gods fighting with one another, not people like Genesis does.
    The well known myths were clearly used by the Bible as literary "vehicles" so the tale could tell the factual truth.
     
  11. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    People from East Africa crossed into Arabia 100,000 years ago. Genesis writers knew nothing about 22 species of ancestors...... or human migration.
     
  12. cupid dave

    cupid dave Well-Known Member

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    So, you think God did not know that Noah was evolved from 22 species which science has discovered as our blood line?
    To you, it is a coincidence that the genealogy just happens to state that 22 kinds of mankind preceded Noah:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    You deny this Science, here, in this book...
    [​IMG]

    ... you deny the genetics which shows Jews lived in 1360 BC, that monotheism existed in Egypt in 1360 BC, as the Bible says, and that the Pharaoh Akhenaten died in the Red Sea.
    Even if Jesus came to you, you would deny him, too, wouldn't you??
     
  13. Colonel K

    Colonel K Well-Known Member

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    Dave uses a special hallucinatory edition of the Bible texts. It's kind of ironic, I recall once skimming through a learned treatise on how the Jesus myth grew out of a magic mushroom cult.
     
  14. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    Positively weird................
     
  15. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There is some evidence that supports that idea. I recall that book too. The role of psychoactive plants and mushrooms may have much to do with those ancient visions that were then interpreted according to the culture and religious beliefs. Some people who do the DMT experience, ayahuasca, report seeing and communicating with gods. So it is reasonable to think the ancients involved in Judaism and even Christianity had a bit of help from plants and mushrooms.
     
  16. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    A lost legend about Ziusudra, king of Sumer

    Noah was a Sumerian king of Shuruppak during the Jemdet Nasr period which ended with the river flood of 2900 BC.

    The Genesis 5 numbers, representing ages of Noah and his ancestors, were based on records written in clay before the river flood in an archaic (pre-cuneiform) Sumerian number system. Contemporaneous records of the deaths of each king and other wealthy land owners in Shuruppak were probably created by taxation scribes, so that tax collectors would know who was responsible for paying the real-estate taxes. These separate records were dated by year name and stored with similar death records in the temple archives in Shuruppak from before and after the flood of 2900 BC. These records included Noah's death.

    The flood story was first written in clay during the Early Dynastic IIIa period (ca. 2600-2500 BC). The scribe who compiled the flood story from various oral traditions about previous floods may have been the same scribe who searched the archives for records of Noah and his ancestors and calculated the Genesis 5 numbers from raw birth and death records which the scribe found in the archives. The scribe calculated the Genesis 5 numbers using an archaic Sumerian number systems that was used only in Shuruppak and only during the Early Dynastic IIIa period.

    http://noahs-ark-flood.com/

    - - - Updated - - -

    A lost legend about Ziusudra, king of Sumer

    Noah was a Sumerian king of Shuruppak during the Jemdet Nasr period which ended with the river flood of 2900 BC.

    The Genesis 5 numbers, representing ages of Noah and his ancestors, were based on records written in clay before the river flood in an archaic (pre-cuneiform) Sumerian number system. Contemporaneous records of the deaths of each king and other wealthy land owners in Shuruppak were probably created by taxation scribes, so that tax collectors would know who was responsible for paying the real-estate taxes. These separate records were dated by year name and stored with similar death records in the temple archives in Shuruppak from before and after the flood of 2900 BC. These records included Noah's death.

    The flood story was first written in clay during the Early Dynastic IIIa period (ca. 2600-2500 BC). The scribe who compiled the flood story from various oral traditions about previous floods may have been the same scribe who searched the archives for records of Noah and his ancestors and calculated the Genesis 5 numbers from raw birth and death records which the scribe found in the archives. The scribe calculated the Genesis 5 numbers using an archaic Sumerian number systems that was used only in Shuruppak and only during the Early Dynastic IIIa period.

    http://noahs-ark-flood.com/
     
  17. cupid dave

    cupid dave Well-Known Member

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    Yes,the whole world had already believed in a great flood story which had been invented as part of the religions that existed before Moses appeared.

    Moses used that flood illusion as the vehicle by which he could contest what religious people had long taught themselves and the children for thousands of years.
    It not only got attention from existing readers, who immediately recognized it was, itself, religious in nature, but it allowed for telling about the Table of the Human Ascent.

    It factually described the 22 different kinds of now extinct humans from whom we evolved, but then explained rather well the actual roots of modern humanity pretty accurately.

    Moses also used another historical Egyptian writing about a great natural catastrophe which cause tremendous suffering of ten different "plagues" of real problems for the people.
    He used these same well known stories of the history of Egypt to describe the effects of what his own works would also cause for Egyptians.
    These were called "The Papyrus Ipuwer,"... http://www.henryzecher.com/papyrus_ipuwer.htm
     
  18. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    There have been floods all over the world at different times, but no universal flood.. I would be like Hurricanes Hugo or Katrina... They are epic stories that primitive man might have thought were world wide.
     
  19. cupid dave

    cupid dave Well-Known Member

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    ... but you have no criticism directed at what dave says, merely at Dave with whom you disagree personally,... right?

    1) You don't deny the list of 22, now extinct, human species is what science tells us, do you?

    2) You don't deny a flood of modern man, "Out-of-Africa," starting 40 days and nights of millenniums, do you?

    3) You don't deny the three "breeds" of stocks of Modern man, parallel Noah's 3 sons, do you?

    4) You don't deny the total extinction of Neanderthal man 40,000 years ago, do you?

    5) You don't deny that Modern Homo sapiens, (as reported in Gen 5:31), evolved 150,000 years ago, or 100,000 years before the extinction of Neanderthals 40,000 years ago, do you?

    6) You don't deny that one man, who lived @ 40,000 -60,000 years ago, has genetically been found to have fathered us all do you?

    7) You don't deny that the first Human, by an Act-of-God, was a genetic mutation of two chromosomes from an Ape mother, 7 million years ago, do you?

    The same science you do agree with, don't you????
     
  20. cupid dave

    cupid dave Well-Known Member

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    ... right.
    The "flood" was of people.
    They came "Out-of-Africa:"

    www. anthro.palomar.edu/homo2/mod_homo_4.htm
    The replacement model of Christopher Stringer and Peter Andrews:
    This hypothesis is also referred to as the "out of Africa", "Noah's ark" and "African replacement" model.

    All other lines of humans that had descended from Homo erectus presumably became extinct. From this view, the regional anatomical differences that we see among humans today are recent developments--evolving mostly in the last 40,000 years.
     
  21. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    No one was around to record human migration 100,000 years ago.. certainly not the fictional Moses.
     
  22. cupid dave

    cupid dave Well-Known Member

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    Right.
    Genetic did it for us.
     
  23. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    Are you a geneticist?.. You are the one who claims that scientists have Aaron's DNA, aren't you?
     
  24. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    FYI.............
     

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