Secession is not war. The South had never invaded the North prior to the illegal invasion by Abe Lincoln. And you know that to be a fact. States that left also voted to leave. Had the public wanted to stay, and some states the public did want to remain, they would have remained in the Union. But when the public wants to leave, you do not force them into a condition they do not want and dread being party to. What happened is the rights of the public of the States of the South was not respected and they were invaded over their beliefs.
I saw the chair he got shot in. I saw the bed he died on. Shooting him by a citizen was wrong. But at least is is nice to read a poster finding fault with Abe.
Now days we fly warplanes hundreds or thousands of miles and drop bombs on our enemies Presidents houses in the middle of the night. Done that several times. We also use civilians (CIA) to try and kill our enemies leaders. Who is to say that Booth was not an agent of the South?
African slave traders were largely those of Arab descent. As the Arabs colonised Africa, they captured black slaves and traded them regionally, which was the beginning of African slavery. Even today, slavery in the Sahel region and the Horn of Africa exists along the racial and cultural boundary of the light-skinned Berbers in the north and the darker sub-Saharan Africans in the south. America has a short history of just 200 years and Anglo-Americans were quite new to the business.
Stop trying to evade. Whether it was legal or illegal is not the question we were dealing with. The SOUTH seceded from the UNION...and it seceded because of the Union's opposition to slavery. The Civil War...was the result of slavery. That is what we are discussing. You realize I am correct...and you are trying to veer off. Okay. Veer. I'll bring it back to what we were discussing.
And speaking about the ignorance of slavery history... why all the hatred for the Confederate battle flag? Let's see... The USA had slavery for 89 years. The Confederacy only existed for 4 years. Not a single slave ever came to America on a Confederate ship. They all came here on US ships and European country ships.
Oh, please...stop with the nonsense. The thing I was discussing was the statement that the Civil War was not about slavery. IT WAS! The states seceded because they did not want the federal government to have any say about whether or not human beings could be held as slaves. The Civil War WAS ABOUT SLAVERY. AND...the Civil War determined that the Union would endure...that we would stay the United States. Stop fighting it. General Lee already surrendered. The war is over. We are brothers and sisters in a union.
He may well have been one. At the least, he operated as if he believed he was. It is amazing when one first learns of all the wars this country engaged in. Most were taught in school as if we were innocent but others were guilty. Then we learn it was the USA that was guilty. Even taking WW2. We blame Japan for bombing. So why did FDR put so many ships in one tiny port as bait? Many who visit Pearl Harbor can't imagine that small harbor clogged up with over 160 ships. But FDR had that many in the cramped port. Worse, FDR kept interfering with Japan. Now, what Japan did to China was pure evil. I never would defend what Japan did. But we slapped an act of war on Japan with our embargo. Obama has hit Russia with an act of war by his stupid acts against Russia. Then you had FDR put ships into Japan's coast waters running with no lights. When they were discovered by Japan, they were chased. But lost to Japan. Still FDR made the USA the target of Japanese aggression. And cost lives in the process. We presume it was our business to wage war on Hitler. I have been to Germany. It is a rather small country. We are so much larger it is next to impossible to compare. Dictators have long taken over countries. Sooner or later, they fall. Saddam fell yet it is George Bush who is hated by people in this very country.
Nope, and here is where you went wrong. Secession was an act that was voted for. It was not imposed. War was imposed. Abe imposed war. Abe did not admit he imposed war due to slavery. That is the Democrats party line talking. I will repeat. Secession was to keep the right to hold as private property humans aka slaves. We had a dozen presidents, most who were classified as greater than typical, that owned slaves. We had one president that waged an open wanton invasion on the public. And that name is Abe Lincoln. There is nothing sacred about this union. We do not currently own Canada though we might have had the cards played different. But Canada is free. To claim we need to own X states is not sane. Take a look at damage even today. We have people still rioting. Why ? Due to the war against slavery.
I still have my confederate battle flag. I keep it with my USA flag that is certified to have flown on the mast of the sunken ship AZ at Pearl Harbor. But your history is accurate. Then we will be forced to read Democrats version of history.
Here are the opening paragraphs of the declaration of independence from the Union of three of the seceding states: GEORGIA: The people of Georgia having dissolved their political connection with the Government of the United States of America, present to their confederates and the world the causes which have led to the separation. For the last ten years we have had numerous and serious causes of complaint against our non-slave-holding confederate States with reference to the subject of African slavery. They have endeavored to weaken our security, to disturb our domestic peace and tranquility, and persistently refused to comply with their express constitutional obligations to us in reference to that property, and by the use of their power in the Federal Government have striven to deprive us of an equal enjoyment of the common Territories of the Republic. This hostile policy of our confederates has been pursued with every circumstance of aggravation which could arouse the passions and excite the hatred of our people, and has placed the two sections of the Union for many years past in the condition of virtual civil war. Our people, still attached to the Union from habit and national traditions, and averse to change, hoped that time, reason, and argument would bring, if not redress, at least exemption from further insults, injuries, and dangers. Recent events have fully dissipated all such hopes and demonstrated the necessity of separation. MISSISSIPPI: In the momentous step which our State has taken of dissolving its connection with the government of which we so long formed a part, it is but just that we should declare the prominent reasons which have induced our course. Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization. That blow has been long aimed at the institution, and was at the point of reaching its consummation. There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union, whose principles had been subverted to work out our ruin. That we do not overstate the dangers to our institution, a reference to a few facts will sufficiently prove. SOUTH CAROLINA; The people of the State of South Carolina, in Convention assembled, on the 26th day of April, A.D., 1852, declared that the frequent violations of the Constitution of the United States, by the Federal Government, and its encroachments upon the reserved rights of the States, fully justified this State in then withdrawing from the Federal Union; but in deference to the opinions and wishes of the other slaveholding States, she forbore at that time to exercise this right. Since that time, these encroachments have continued to increase, and further forbearance ceases to be a virtue. All of the other declarations...mention SLAVERY as a reason. The Civil War was fought because of slavery. - - - Updated - - - The reason for the war...was the secession. The reason for the secession...was slavery. The reason for the war...was slavery.
What was Abe's beef with slavery since it was him that invaded? Why did Abe lie by saying he did it to preserve the union? You are confused over separate events. 1. The vote of citizens in the South 2. The act of war by Abe Lincoln Abe is on record as wanting to deport the blacks. - - - Updated - - - Circular logic won't work. Abe made the choice for war. The public made their choice to preserve their own freedom. So, Abe made war to prevent freedom.
Right, State's rights issues were the primary focus. Which is why personally, I've never had a problem displaying the Confederate flag. Call me what you will for doing so. I care not.
I do not care who started the war...I have not spoken to that. I do not care if Abraham Lincoln was a fine man or a mad man...I have not spoken to that. I do not care if New Jersey had slaves at the time of the war...I have not spoken to that. What I have said is that the Civil War was about slavery. Guess what: The Civil War WAS about slavery. That is what I am arguing. Deal with that...rather than trotting out all the evasive nonsense.
What you told me is Abe invaded due to slavery. Show us proof. You mix up two events. Event 1 is the public holding public elections and choosing leaders. Event 2 is an Army invading VA with massed troops and cannons and war supplies. Do not confuse the two events. Say the south departed over slavery and I agree. But the war was of Abe's choosing and he chose a totally different cause.
The War was about Imperial subjugation (the Union cause) vs States Rights (the Confederate cause). We all lost when the Union won.
Lincoln, who started the war, said the war was to preserve the Union. After 100,000 or so Union soldiers were dead, and Union support for his War was starting to fall apart, he needed something more compelling to sucker them into keep fighting, so he changed it to being about freeing the slaves.
From Lincoln's first inaugural address: The power confided to me will be used to hold, occupy, and possess the property and places belonging to the Government and to collect the duties and imposts; but beyond what may be necessary for these objects, there will be no invasion, no using of force against or among the people anywhere.
"My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union. I shall do less whenever I shall believe what I am doing hurts the cause, and I shall do more whenever I shall believe doing more will help the cause."... Abraham Lincoln.
The only time Lincoln mentions using force or invading is to collect "duties & imposts", i.e. revenue. The war was fought for the union to continue collecting tariffs from Southern ports.
Lincoln also said this in his first inaugural address: "I have no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the States where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so."
Lincoln's an interesting read. He doesn't 'lie', but he couches the meat of his argument in a bunch of fluff at times. He also was given to starting out with a statement that few would disagree with, then lead the listener/reader to his desired conclusion as if his was the only logical way to see it. Quite deft for a simple railsplitter . His address to Congress on July 4, 1861, where he has to explain how he started a war with Congress in recess, is a good example of his style, along with the 1st inaugural.
