The Universe has always existed based on new evidence !

I am using words you know to paint an abstraction of concepts that involve non-existence. We are going to have a very hard time if you take all of my analogies literally.

 

I think getting into M theory is beyond the scope of this thread. It is hard enough already, just for sake of argument presume there are 11 which can really only be expressed, albeit poorly, with math... as your sensory input has no relevance.

 

In one form or another.

 

But that's just it - you're unable to define non-existence because it doesn't exist. The concept of abstract terms and painted words are all futile because there has never been non-existence. Existence is eternal.

 

If you think about it, there is no reason for the Universe to have had a beginning as it will have no real end. It's nothing but hubris that drives humanity to have a beginning of the Universe.

 

I don't know by what definition you throw around the word existence, so let us narrow the scope to your original statement, which was that the universe has always existed. This absolute statement is not a fact. The universe could well have manifested as loosely described. We can argue about the precepts of existence beyond the universe if you like.

 

yep, it's like saying what were you or I before Conception.... could it ever be possible we did not exist, do we have to have a Origin, a starting point

was our universe Born.... or always existed

not sure we can ever know for sure as were inside the bubble and can not see outside it

for all we know the universe can pop tomorrow and this universe will be done, just like a sun dies, maybe a universe can die


.

 

Not sure what you're trying to say, anyway i already had the idea that the " one god " that religions talk about may be a reference to the universe as a whole, thus makes sense that god is eternal, all powerful and omnipresent. We too are the sons of god because we are being born inside it. Anyway the most intriguing theory so far is that there's some kind of super intelligent beings who act as balancers of the cosmo, using their technology to keep the universe stable. Those may be as well the many minor gods spoken by religions, i guess.

But what intriguesme most is if the universe/multiverse or whatever it may be, has an actual meaning. It doesn't make much sense that everything is just random junk born out of other random things for no purpose at all but yet many things do indeed have little sense. The one greatest goal of humanity may not be to estabilish how things work but why.

 

That is one thing that is always at the forefront with mankind, the why. I certainly don't have all the answers, but just making something up that satisfies the logical direction you want to go without empirical evidence to back it up, isn't anything but voodoo science. If there is a creator, a specific one, then it is my opinion it falls in line with the Deists beliefs. And if the universe is God, why can't it just be constant and without a particular plan attached.

I think people place way too much importance in their own self worth, rather than the desire to be worthy.

 

http://www.politicalforum.com/religion-philosophy/161933-universe-finite-infinite.html

Dude, heres my thread on this from like 5 years ago. I've been sayin this forever

 

Time only works if there is a beginning and end to it.

Let's go I ching with it. Look at all that is nature. Look at all things, and their inverse. Look at light and darkness. Look at matter, and anti-matter. Invert time and space. Invert existence. Invert infinity. What has no inverse? What in all that is the known universe, is their not an inverse for? Non-existence, outside of time and space... logically, is an inverse. Where there is not existence, there is non-existence, and where suddenly has no meaning. I was trying to stay within the realm of math... but you want to call on perception. Give me the thing in the known universe without an inverse. Give me a concept. Good or evil. Positive or negative. Life or death.

This is the most enjoyable thread in a while btw... thanks.

 

I read it, d'uh. It's no more idiotic than any other theory. No one knows the answers and there have been more than one theory to explain everything that claimed to mathematically fit.

Buy into it 100% if you want, I choose not to at this point.

 

Yeah really...think about it...

 

Well, space and time are two different dimensions - people have a difficult time understanding them each both independently.

I wont say I buy the fact that I buy that the universe has always existed because we don't know.00000000001% of that is to know about the universe and how it works or how nature works....

The real problem is people indeed will now start saying the universe has always existed and call it fact, just like the big bang is ignorantly taught as fact.

Also, these ideas come straight from string theory/m-theory and honestly - none of those equations can be applied in reality - so it's not like any of these ideas can be proven.

It's like quantum computing, yea in theory using the same math that is being used here it should work in theory but there is no hardware or application available that would allow us to prove it would work.. The closest they have come to that is quantum entanglement experiments that worked - but that is far from quantum computing or proving it.

 

Yea, you keep dividing that you get to infinity. Once someone can explain how something can have existed for an infinite length of time, I'll start believing this children's math. It's the same concept that people use to say that if a ball bounces, mathematically it never stops bouncing. Yet we know that there is an actual time it stops bouncing.

 

Actually if you divide anything in half an infinate number of times the final result is zero. To divide anything in half it must have a beginning point and that point is zero. If it doesn't have a beginning (zero) then it can't actually be divided in half.

Exististance is actually defined by the occupation of space because the occupation of space establishes a timeline. If there is "nothing" then their isn't a timeline. Of course we can measure back to the singularity but did the occupation of space exist anywhere before that? It could have but not in our universe and therefore we wouldn't be measuring our universe anymore.

 

There is a beginning and end to everything, the universe was created, it just didn't exist from nothing.

 

A timeline is unnecessary if the Universe is eternal.

- - - Updated - - -

It never came from nothing - time, space, and matter always have existed in some form or another.

 

Funny that it is the liberal/progressives that want to eliminate automobiles, air conditioning, air planes and put your butt on a bicycle.

What do you see as advancing mankind in the liberal horde's agenda??

So in your mind my truck has always existed but the dinosaurs that walked over it just was it as dirt?

That would also mean that babies are alive at the moment of conception but even before that as some religious fools believe and want to ban any form of contraception. Do you want to ban contraception?
There was no universe at all until hundreds of years after the Big Bang. There was nothing but a giant cloud of plasma that was so hot that we can still see the heat from it. One degree K. After that it was a long time before the universe began to swirl into stars, planets and galaxies.

In the 1940s we thought that our galaxy was the entire universe and now we think that we know all.

What we see as the universe may be nothing more than a local little pop that happened in the blink of the creator's eye. What we see looks pretty big to us but as stars go ours is so small that it can't create heavy elements in its core.

According to Einstein "Nothing" can move faster than light but the entire area that is the universe today was filled with plasma in less time than it takes light to get from the middle to the edges so the "Big Bang" had to spread "Nothing" throughout the universe. Even then it took over 300K years to get the "Nothing" in place so that it could cool and become hydrogen and some helium atoms. 400 millions years later the super massive stars coalesced and started to fuse atoms into iron. Once these giant stares produced Iron they exploded with such force that the heat and pressure created all of the elements heavier than iron. Even with billions of years of stars fusing hydrogen into other elements there is still more hydrogen than anything else.

Most cosmologists believe that "time" didn't exist right after the "Big Gang" or the expansion couldn't have happened. Something moving faster than light means that time was no their to complicate things. So before the universe began there was no time to be divided.

 

Your truck is made of parts that are matter at some level. And matter has always existed in one form or another.

 

This universe may have been created by something before it, just like our solar system was created. But this universe came from something , it wasn't just there.

Perhaps it had another form and evolved into what it is now?