The Utter Contradiction Of The Conservative Religion Exemplified:-

I have sometimes voted Republican, though not in the last 25 years.

The Right went TOO FAR to the right.

 

To far to the right when it comes to social issues, I agree.

 

Well, I tend to also dislike the fiscal priorities (what is important to them) of Conservatives. Too much war, too much big energy, too many corporate subsidies and their infernal reluctance to bolster the safety-net for down-and-out Americans. I really despise the Conservative agenda overall, because they have become both extreme and intransigent in some very troubling ways.

Then, there's the 'religion' aspect, that Conservatives try to push on people... at virtually EVERY opportunity. (It's maddening.)

Fiscal Conservatism (what I see as being generally prudent about numbers), need not be the extremism which today's Conservatives manipulate (seemingly) to serve those who benefit them the most.

Liberals and Progressives aren't political angels... but right now (considering how far RIGHT this nation has been pulled over the last 12 years), I probably won't support a Conservative for many years to come.

 

In my view, subsidies to corporations and big energy should be gotten rid off, and wars should preferably not be fought, so I agree with you. A safety net for all americans is also something I'd support, but I have some issues with how it might be done.

 

Hilarious. Were you striving for equal opportunity when you bankrupted the western economy and then paid the elitist banking institutions trillions of dollars of American taxpayer money?

Don't make me laugh, mate.

 

I agree with you both. Emphatically.

 

Where were you befor socially and now?

 

You obviously didn't read or understand my post about private schools in Alabama.

BTW, education is education, and when states regulate the minimum quality standards there is no excuse for the state not to give the students some part of the costs not to exceed what they spend for students in public school. And that applies to religious schools as well so long as they do not discriminate based on color, creed, culture or religion. The Private Catholic schools in Louisiana desegregated before the public schools did.

TRANSPARENCY & REPORTING
Applies to all private schools
• The principal teacher of each private school must keep a register of attendance that
clearly indicates every absence of each child from such school for a half day or more
during each school day.
• Private schools that cease operations must place student academic, attendance and
financial aid records in the office of the appropriate school administrator, where a
repository shall exist to safeguard these records and make them available to authorized
people upon request
• Adequate records as determined by the state Department of Education must be kept to
show attendance and student progress. Records must be furnished to prospective
employers and other interested parties upon request of the student. Safeguards must be
provided to protect student records from damage, loss or compromise by unauthorized
people as mandated by federal and state statutes.
• A student enrollment agreement or contract shall be used to set forth clearly all
conditions for enrollment, completion of courses of instruction, itemized course cost,
terms of payment and other conditions the school may establish. Conditions for forced
withdrawal for academic or disciplinary reasons shall be stated. Contracts establishing
installment payments with interest charges shall be in compliance with state lending and
usury statutes and must be certified by the state Banking Department.
• All school officers, except those in church schools, must make and furnish all reports that
may be required by the state superintendent of education, the county superintendent of
education or the local board of education.
• At the end of the fifth day after the opening of public schools, the principal teacher of
each private school, except church schools, must report to the county superintendent of
education or the city superintendent of schools the names and addresses of all children
ages seven to 16 who have enrolled; thereafter, throughout the compulsory attendance
period, the principal teacher must report at least weekly the names and addresses of all
children ages seven to 16 who enroll in the school; who, having enrolled, were absent
without being excused; or whose absence was not satisfactorily explained by the parent,
guardian or other person having control of the child. The enrollment and attendance of a
child in a church school shall be filed with the local public school superintendent by the
child’s parent on a form provided by the superintendent, which must be countersigned by
the administrator of the church school and returned to the public school superintendent
by the parent. Should the child cease attendance at the church school, the child’s parent
must, by prior consent at the time of enrollment, direct the church school to notify the
local public school superintendent that the child is no longer in attendance.
• Private schools that cease operation must, within 10 calendar days of closing, notify the
state superintendent of education of the action by letter and/or facsimile; submit a list to
the state superintendent of education containing the name, home address, telephone
number and course/program of each student enrolled in the school on the date the school
closed; and submit a written plan to the state superintendent of education explaining in
detail how the school will arrange for the continued education of its students, how tuition
refunds will be handled, how other contractual agreements with students will be resolved
and where student records will be stored.
• The following items must be maintained currently and accurately at all times by each
private school at each location: a course outline or syllabus for each licensed course or
program of study; copies of each current catalog, bulletin, brochure, promotional material
and advertisement; each student's permanent record showing admission date(s),
attendance, transcript of academic progress, tuition payments, financial aid and
termination or completion; each student's application for admission showing name,
address, age, date enrolled and other pertinent information with documents supporting
accomplishment of prerequisites established for each course; each student's enrollment
agreement or contract; a copy of the certificate of completion, diploma or transcript of
credits for each student completing a course or program of study; and personal data of
each administrator, director, supervisor, instructor and agent of the school, including a
copy of certificates of completion, diplomas and transcripts of relevant educational and/or
occupational experiences.
• Policies on course cancellation, tuition fees and refunds must be clearly stated in each
private school catalog, bulletin or brochure. Students may cancel enrollment at any time
by complying with the notification procedures established by the school. Refunds of
unearned prepaid tuition, fees and other charges must be made in the following manner
within 30 days of termination: if cancellation occurs within 72 hours of the enrollment
date, all money paid by the prospective student shall be refunded; if cancellation occurs
after 72 hours of the enrollment date, but before classes begin or correspondence
materials are delivered, a refund shall be made of all money paid except the registration
fee; if cancellation occurs after classes begin or after shipment of correspondence
materials, a pro rata refund will be made of all unearned prepaid tuition, fees and charges
for books and supplies not issued to the student. Once books and supplies are issued
and received by students, these become the property of students and refunds may be
made only at the discretion of the private school; a full refund is due students whose
contracted educational services are denied by the school as a result of economic or
academic fraud.
• Each private school is required to use a student enrollment agreement or contract for
courses or programs of study. The enrollment agreement or contract must set forth
clearly all conditions for enrollment in and completion of courses of instruction, itemized
costs, terms of payment and other conditions the school may establish. A copy of the
signed contract with all attachments must be provided to each enrolled student.
Enrollment by minors must be co-signed by an adult.


CURRICULUM & ACADEMICS
Applies to all private schools
• Instructors and supervisors must have the educational background and experience
necessary to successfully fulfill the educational objectives of the assigned course or
program of study.
• The English language must be used in giving instruction.
• Instruction must be offered in the branches of study required to be taught in public
schools.
• Adequate space, equipment, instructional material and instructor personnel must be
available to provide training of good quality.
• No licensed private school, no public school and no college or university subject to the
state Board of Education may accept credits from a school that was not licensed,
exempted from licensure or entitled to an exemption.
• The curriculum, instruction and each course provided by private schools must be
consistent in quality and content with similar public school programs and standards
established for specific programs by the state Department of Education.
• Each private school must offer only the courses approved in its registration materials by
the state Department of Education. Any proposed changes subsequently made in the
courses outlined must be approved by the department before being implemented.
• No private school may sell, award, grant or confer any earned or honorary degree,
diploma or certificate unless prior permission has been granted in writing by the state
superintendent of education.
• References appropriate to the courses offered must exist in adequate numbers in a
library or resource room to support academic preparation at the academic or
occupational level for each course offered.
• Each private school must provide facilities, equipment, tools, machines, instructional aids
and materials in adequate quantity, quality and variety to meet the educational needs
specified in the stated objectives of each course.
• The site and facilities of a private school must provide adequate and appropriate space to
accommodate the proposed instructional program and to provide program support
services as necessary.
HEALTH & SAFETY
Applies to all private schools
• The boards of education and the governing authority of each private school must require
each student who is otherwise entitled to admittance to kindergarten or first grade,
whichever is applicable, or any other entrance into an Alabama public or private school,
to present a certification of immunization or testing for the prevention of communicable
diseases designated by the state health officer.
MISCELLANEOUS
• For each private school bus operated on public highways and used only for the purposes
of the school, regardless of whether any compensation may be charged to any
passenger, a license tax or registration fee of $13 is required.
​

 

Me? I don't think I've changed position.

 

The right has gone to the left on most social issues. I am not sure what you meant earlier and trying to find out. Is this about the gays? Or on demand abortion?

 

I'm opposed to the extreme position that there'd be no abortion at all, nor any kind of unions for gays. And then there's intelligent design and prayer in school and that religious jazz.

 

Handful of school board member aren't "the right". We have a million counties here.

Abortion ban except in the case of rape and incest has been their position for awhile. Killing isn't liberal.

They have moved on the gays if anything. The left passed DOMA. Until Obama a year ago their position was identical to the right. Are you sure it isn't you who has moved?

 

Wrong. Salvation is a word. It's meaningless without the act that is required to achieve it. It's the result of something. It doesn't stand alone. It requires an action to make the word meaningful. Salvation is achieved by certain means and those means were through self-sacrifice. That's how you achieve salvation. By following that example. It's one thing to claim a belief in Jesus, it's another to actually follow his example. By acting not out of self-interest, but rather for the sake of the thing itself. Putting the interests of others before your own. It's called the Catagorical Imperative. It's an unconditional moral law that applies to all rational beings and is independent of any personal motive or desire. The Cross is the reminder of that. Jesus sacrificed his own life for your sake. That's a Catagorical Imperative. His motive was not out of self-interest. If it were, he'd have come down from the Cross.

Do you think he doesn't know or understand what's in the Bible? He seems to follow the teachings of Christ as most people understand them.

 

No, I've been pretty much stationary, maintaining my general apathy for these topics. Anyways I disagree with both democrats and republicans. The latter seem to me to want to push gayness in the face of everyone and generally make a big deal out of it, and the latter seems to want the opposite. I'm as apatethic to peoples' sexuality as it can get.

 

I feel the same way. I could honestly care less but I don't want people persecuted for being weirded out by gays. Just as I don't want gays persecuted for weirding people out. I see no need for government marriage the courts can sort out marital contracts in divorce court without a license fee.

 

You discussed racial discrimination. I didn't realize you care about religious discrimination. Do you bar money from going to gay, minority and certain gender specific groups? Or just religious groups thereby discriminating against them? Planned parenthood discriminates against men, minority scholarships discriminate against whites, etc... So you are Ok with money to religious groups that perform the same function right? Or do they get different treatment solely because they are religious? Isn't that discrimination?

You are the only racist here. You are the one who demands racial discrimination in our legal system. If that isn't racist I would love to hear why.

 

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What I discussed was DISCRIMINATION. You assumed I was talking about RACIAL discrimination. You jumped to a false conclusion. I oppose all forms of discrimination.

Now you know. Why would you think otherwise?

What do you mean by "money going to"?

I oppose tax payer funding of religion. So did our founders. It's in our constitution. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion"

Religion is an ideology and it's always a matter of individual choice. You decide if you want to be a Catholic, a Methodist, a Baptist, a Muslim, or whatever. You also decide if you don't and reject that kind of thinking. You can't decide on what color or gender or sexual orientation you have. It's not in your control. Religions all have doctrines and dogma and make final statements on morality and social ethics to their believers. But different people have different beliefs, and those should all be respected on an equal basis. I have no problem in criticizing how somebody thinks, but I don't criticize their color or gender preference or gender itself which they have no control over. You can control how you think, but you can't control your physical genetic makeup.

No it doesn't. Unless you've come up with new process that eliminates the male from conception process, you'd be wrong. You assume that men don't have any say in the planning of children. Why would you assume that?

Scholorships all come from private sources. Private sources can decide who they want to provide scholorship's to. It's not government funding. Just as private schools can decide who to admit and who to reject. Every scholarship has a narrow window of opportunity. Some scholarships are only for local residents of a given community. If I'm not a member of that church or community should I be able to demand that I be eligible and they must award me a scholarship?

Not tax dollars. If some private parish or church has a scholarship for their members, that's their business.

No. Religions all discriminate. And we can't fund discrimination under Title VI of the Civil Rights Act. They can get away with it because they're religions. Title VI of the Civil Rights Act explains this. Title VI states that no person "in the United States" shall be discriminated against on the basis of race, color, or national origin by an entity receiving Federal financial assistance. ( It was expanded to include religion, gender, and sexual orientation) Title VI states that no program or activity receiving "Federal financial assistance" shall discriminate against individuals based on their race, color, or national origin. The clearest example of Federal financial assistance is the award or grant of money. Federal financial assistance, however, also may be in nonmonetary form. Agency regulations use similar, if not identical, language to define Federal financial assistance:

(1) Grants and loans of Federal funds,
(2) The grant or donation of Federal property and interests in property,
(3) The detail of Federal personnel,

The nature of religion is that it discriminates. To force them into non discrimination practice would deny them their right to the Free exercise of their beliefs which are guaranteed under the 1st Amendment. The remedy for that is that they cannot obtain direct Federal funding because we don't fund discrimination with taxpayer dollars. They are free to do what they want and don't even pay taxes, but likewise they are not eligible for Federal funds. Some like Catholic Charities and Lutheran Charities set up separate corporation that are completely outside of the church and don't discriminate in their hiring practice, and that makes them eligible for funds.

Your racism has already been pointed out. You asked me to point it out and I did. On the other hand you call me a "racist" without any evidence to show it. All the questions you've just brought up have been answered. Your ideology is racist and you subscribe to it, so that is what defines you, and your only remedy for it is to reject the ideology which of course you wont' do, because despite the fact that all ideologies are "man made" and all men are fallible and prone to error, you haven't figured out that, if that's the case, then it stands to reason that you can't create an infallible idea from a fallible source. So even knowing you and your dumb ideas could be wrong, you cling to them anyway. You can't accept the truth that you could be wrong about something. And of course, in your own inept way, you revealed your racism by jumping to a suggesting that your voucher idea is only for Blacks. You never mentioned the potential discrimination of other groups. Why not? You didn't even think that your bogus argument could discriminate against any other minority. You actually assumed that because I was opposed to vouchers that I hated equal opportunity for Blacks., when the fact is that I never singled out any opposition to Blacks on this issue. You adopted a race based position. I oppose vouchers because they provide tax payer dollars to private institutions that are allowed to discriminate against blacks, Jews, gays, Muslims, atheists, or even those of a different political view. I have no intentions of paying for somebody's prejudice, including yours, and given the opportunity, that's exactly what you want.

 

I don't know anyone who spends every spare minute fighting those who want equality. Fighting against a socialist government yes. Socialism doesn't work, never has. Many Liberals want that type of government. All that does is make all equally poor. Takes away incentive to do better and earn more.

No everyone isn't equal. But most are in the position they are in because the choices they make.

Stupid is not really understanding what many people say and taking for granted what a few say is the same way most others feel.

 

I have to agree with Quantumhead on this one. On almost every thread I've been on it's some variation of that exact theme. It's become a talking point. We already have socialistic elements in our society today, and have had for many years now, and it doesn't seem to have stopped some people from acquiring enormous amounts of wealth. In fact our entire system in of capitalism in this country sits atop a bedrock socialistic infrastructure to support it. We have a record setting Dow Average that is 10,000 points higher than when this current administration first took over. And many European countries are far more socialistic then we are and it hasn't stopped people from acquiring wealth. So I don't see any evidence to support your claim.

 

I view Pope about the same as New Age Christians view Jesus---he is a great leader and teacher, etc., etc.... As I've said before I don't equate the views of church leaders as equal to what's in the Bible. The views of Popes and Catholics change with the political winds. Capital punishment is permitted one year and not the next. Thinking that the Catholic Church WERE the 1st Christians---wrong again. "The Way" was the 1st.

As far as salvation is concerned---there is more evidence that these steps are required: Confess, Believe, Repent, Receive.

http://www.coronadosbc.com/4Step.html

 

'Any thoughts?' is my question for YOU.

 

But what's in the Bible? Aren't you reading essentially the same Bible as the Pope? I know that Catholics use the Douay-Rheims Bible, and there are lots of other versions, but isn't the message basically the same? And if it is, you're telling me that what's in the Bible is what matters. Are you saying that the Pope isn't reading what's in the Bible and applying that to our condition today? It seems that there is no definitive reading of the Bible which makes it all relative. If the Bible is supposed to be the Truth, then all we're saying here is that Truth is relative. That seems contradictory to Christian belief.

Did Jesus not say to Peter, "And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter (which means Rock), and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." There is a direct line of succession from Peter to Francis. Was Peter not qualified to understand "the Way"? Apparently Jesus thought so. And can you tell me how Pope Francis is NOT following "the Way"? What is he doing that Jesus would disapprove of? How does he not follow Jesus example? Specifically.

So, you think that Confession ( which is part of the Catholic ritual) Belief, and repentance, are more important to receiving, than the act of sacrifice of one's own self-interest? When you place "receive" at the end of the chain, what you're showing me is that all of those things that precede that, are designed to put you in a position to receive a benefit. You're doing these things out of self-interest. You're doing them out of the motive of what you'll get in return. It turns everything into a bargain. I'll do this, as long as I can get that. The morality for doing good is undermined by the prospect of what you get in return.

If a young boy walks into a store to buy some bread, and the store owner knows that the boy is too young to be aware of whether he got the correct change, he may reason that he could short-change the boy, and the boy would never know it. But he may also reason that if he were found out, he might lose customers because it would become known that he cheated a young boy, so he gives the boy the correct change. Was there any moral worth to his actions? The answer is NO. He did the right thing, but for all the wrong reasons. He was motivated to give the boy the correct change out of self interest, rather than doing the right thing for the right reasons. There is nothing in my understanding of Jesus teachings, that promote self-interest. Everything involved the sacrifice of self interest to a higher cause. That's the Catagorical Imperative. To act for the sake of the thing itself. Not for what you might gain by doing it.

John 15:13
Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends.

Philippians 2:3-4
Do nothing from rivalry or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than yourselves. Let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others.

There seems to be a lot of examples regarding self-sacrifice in the Bible. It seems that "love" is the common denominator and love doesn't involve self-interest. It's unconditional.