THE WEALTHY ARE REALLY 'N TRULY SCREWING US! AND HERE'S HOW

Discussion in 'Budget & Taxes' started by LafayetteBis, Sep 9, 2021.

  1. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    From the Guardian, US taxation: US’s wealthiest 1% are failing to pay $160bn a year in taxes, report finds

    Excerpt:The wealthiest 1% of Americans are responsible for more than $160bn of lost tax revenue each year, according to a new report from the US treasury.

    Natasha Sarin, deputy assistant secretary for economic policy, said: “A well-functioning tax system requires that everyone pays the taxes they owe.” According to the treasury report, the wealthiest 1% of US taxpayers are responsible for an estimated $163bn in unpaid tax each year, amounting to 28% of the “tax gap”.

    Sarin said that tax gap – “the difference between taxes that are owed and collected” – amounted to “around $600bn annually and will mean approximately $7tn of lost tax revenue over the next decade. The Biden administration proposes closing the tax gap by empowering the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) to more aggressively pursue unpaid taxes, at a cost of $80bn and in the process helping fund the president’s ambitious domestic economic agenda.

    If I were living in the US, I would be hugely-indignant as regards this finding. That level of "rip-off" from the American Tax Authorities is worth jail-time!

    This consequence of a detailed analysis is the direct from our own stoopidity as regards a given political party and having voted their people into presidencies that determine Income Taxation. I can't believe the Dems having known and put up with this huge taxation-mistake - but if they did know then they deserve the same public condemnation.

    Yes, we should feel ashamed of ourselves - but of course, some will say, "how did we know?" Quite right - after all it took a great deal of work to get at the actual-truth about Untaxed Income that was owed but not paid because nobody supposedly new about it. (The research that "outs" this fact was authored by an Natasha Sarin, deputy assistant secretary for economic policy in the Biden Administration.)

    But, now you-the-taxpayer know and that is even far more important!

    Maybe we shall see how well this info impacts taxpayer-indignation. Could be that we Yanks just don't give a damn any more, the abusage on both sides has been so great historically in LaLaLand on the Potomac. So, if you want to know who really-'n-truly is to blame finally, just look in the mirror!

    Though, even if I count myself in that group, I don't really know what can be done about it ... !
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2021
  2. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So the article is claiming certain wealthy persons are owing money but are not paying?

    Are we really to believe currently existing laws are not more than adequate enough to collect this money?
    Sounds more like an excuse for the Progressives to ram through new laws taking away financial privacy and giving the government more power.

    I'd like to know what exactly "more aggressively pursue unpaid taxes" means.
    I highly doubt any rich people are escaping their obligations to pay taxes if the government is individually telling them they owe these taxes. There are plenty of laws already in place that allow the government to collect.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2021
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  3. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The whole premise of this article is just ridiculous. The US is individually telling rich persons they owe taxes but these rich people aren't paying?

    You are aware the US Internal Revenue Service can seize financial assets, money from bank accounts, or even put people in jail if they continue to refuse to pay.

    This whole article seems to be sending an emotional message of "Rich people aren't paying and are cheating everyone else", but when you actually look at the details, the whole concept of this article doesn't make much sense.

    The article does not make a single to mention to WHY the government is unable to get this money.

    More than likely, I think the government is able to get this money but it's just a matter of a time delay. I think this article is misleading.
     
  4. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    RESPECT FOR THE LAW

    Any such measure that you propose is indeed possible but must pass through a court of law. And guess who reduced the Taxation Group Headcount - Donald Dork! (Who is getting his own comeuppance in a NYC court of law regarding his taxes! THREE CHEERS FOR UNCLE SAM! GO GET THE S-O-B!)

    The court would be flooded with cases and over time maybe some lessons learned the hard-way. And if it happens often enough, that is, individuals from each pay-strata who were grossly reporting far-underneath their actual income were taken to task (and in some instances jailed for the grossness of their acts), such would put mentalities back-into-place.

    That is, respect for Tax-Law ... !
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2021
  5. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    A lot of the wealthy not paying their tax's are U.S. Congressmen, mamy of them have millions upon millions of unpaid income tax's, but the IRS will not touch them.


     
  6. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Last edited: Sep 21, 2021
  7. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    The wealthy have always paid a significant amount of taxes. Conversely, the unwealthy pay almost no taxes. Interesting to me is that the current cost to fund government is around $15,000/year per citizen...how many Americans are not paying $15,000/year in federal taxes? I suspect the answer to be something like 200 million. IMO these 200 million have no right to complain about how many taxes are paid by the wealthy. In fact, each of them should send out thank you cards to all the others who are actually paying their share of taxes.

    Also interesting, is for those who think government spends too much, the 200 million not paying their share in taxes will never allow government representatives to greatly reduce government spending. Seems to me all of us should pay for the government we are demanding. Demanding more government while demanding others pay for it seems unAmerican to me?

    The US obviously has a funding and tax problem and recent solution for this is simply to use deficit spending. Even states and cities are being funded by the federal government using debt money. It's a huge problem but IMO the solution is not the wealthy...they can be part of the solution...
     
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  8. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    VOTING UNFAIRNESS IN UNCLE SAM'S LAND

    Sheer idiocy. Income unfairness in the US is one of the worst of any developed country:
    [​IMG]

    Uncle Sam's land is one of the most unfair nations on earth ...
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2021
  9. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Thats what happens when you can afford to hire law firms to find tax loopholes that 'normal' people cant take advantage of. Our tax code is not navigable by the average working class citizen, for this exact reason. It needs to be simplified down to a page or two. Eliminate all the exemptions and deductions that the rich lobbied to have hidden in it and they wont be able to not pay anymore. Until that happens, no rate increases will effect them. They've seen to that.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2021
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  10. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    dsfqsdfqsdf
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2021
  11. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Post all the junk you wish...fact remains 'The wealthy have always paid a significant amount of taxes. Conversely, the unwealthy pay almost no taxes.'
     
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  12. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    THE INCOME TAXATION-ROT THAT CREATED AMERICA'S SUPER-RICH

    Taxes, taxes, taxes - you think that is the ONLY criteria determining whether a country is "Fair" or "Unfair". Wrong again!

    It is the Distribution of income that counts! And Uncle Sam is amongst the most unfair of any developed country!

    [​IMG]
    You want to know what you can do with that above Gross Unfairness of Wealth that the 10% own? Just ask ... !

    PS: And how did they get all that wealth? The easy-way! Starting with JFK in 1964s and later Ronnie RayGun successive Replicant American presidents reduced upper-income taxation!
    [​IMG]
     
  13. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Fact remains; 'The wealthy have always paid a significant amount of taxes. Conversely, the unwealthy pay almost no taxes.'
     
  14. roorooroo

    roorooroo Well-Known Member Donor

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    So leftists complain that the average person pays a higher percentage of income than the wealthy do. Then they say the only fair thing to do is raise the tax rate on the rich.

    But there is another "fair" solution... lower the average person's tax rate to the lower percentage that the rich are paying...
     
  15. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    NOT ONE

    And so the Wealthy are not underpaying their taxes because they pay them.

    That's kinda-sorta stoopid.

    The rip-off in upper-income taxation is mind-blowing. And it's all legal, otherwise some rich people would go to jail.

    Which would be a good start in the right direction. Even better if Donald Dork is the first one of them to be jailed! It will set a pattern for the rest.

    But, the point is that Tax-Law must change formidably, and I cannot imagine one PotUS getting elected on that promise. Not one ...
     
  16. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    You and others are wasting your time if you believe taxation is about the wealthy versus the poor. Here's what is stupid...forums like this one bemoaning taxation yet YOU never examine what the federal government budget actually should be, placing spending controls, and whether or not deficit spending is okay for common operating expenses??? If YOU and others are incapable of knowing what the budget should actually be...how can you pretend to discuss taxation? Tax laws are constantly changing and one thing you are correct about is people would be going to jail if tax preparations are corrupt...but most are not. Fact still remains; 'The wealthy have always paid a significant amount of taxes. Conversely, the unwealthy pay almost no taxes.'
     
  17. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    UNCLE SAM IS NOT HEEDING THE WARNINGS!

    You need to read this from OECD Journal on Budgeting here:

    The budgeting process at the national level is a mess. It would take a rethink to revise the process. And nobody wants that because such would touch upon the nerves of the opposing forces in Congress. Namely, the Right and the Left. So, it aint gonna happen.

    Uncle Sam is making his own Budget Mess because political-parties are at the heart of the Lack of Ability to Change the Budgeting Process ... the lower upper-taxation suits the super-rich just fine. So, given the debt to be paid-off, it expands and expands and expands because upper-taxation is insufficient.

    Till one-day it will explode in all our faces. And when that happens, you-plural can't say that we were not warned. A good many people in LaLaLand on the Potomac know well the inevitability of the above consequence. There will be hell to pay ...
     
  18. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And all that money that is sloshing around amongst the Super-Rich will be of little value because the economy will have tanked!

    Mark my words - Uncle Sam is heading for the Budget Cliff and off it he's-gonna-fall!

    The consequences could be economically cataclysmic to the nation ...
     
  19. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    No matter...when the nation does not actually know how much should be spent...it's pretty difficult to discuss taxation. Whether it's the budget or any other major issue, today it is impossible to have an open-minded discussion and to achieve consensus. As long as we cannot agree on what we truly need we cannot do better planning to get there...
     
  20. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    My position is I would rather have the wealthy decide how to spend their money instead of the government doing so. And revenue realized by the government will be spent!
     
  21. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    AMERICA'S HUMONGOUS DEBT

    Difficult or not, Congress needs to get its act together, because the debt is not waiting for "yet another debate about what to do"!

    From here, yesterday: THE WORLD IN BRIEF

    Yes, so once again, they will "magically" put the matter out "for discussion" and everybody will go have their lunch ... and totally forget about the Humongous Debt.

    Because, after all, they know the World "Loves to hold American Debt". Up to and including the day-they-no-longer like to do so. But there is a Great Debt Surprise-Surprise waiting for us.

    It looks like this (from here):
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2021
  22. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    How will growing federal debt reduce family incomes?
     
  23. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    JUST WHERE?

    Taxation necessary to pay the debt. That was pictured in the last chart I posted above.

    For the moment, we borrow-and-borrow-and borrow off international sources - because the world LOVES to hold American debt. We have a damn fine economy, so taxation pays the interest on the debt. But, it DOES NOT PAY-OFF THE DEBT. Which goes on and on and on - ad nauseam.

    And, by paying off the debt, we are able to obtain even more debt! The world likes to hold American debt? Why not? The economy is a world leader - why fear that the debt wont be paid?

    This "debt-overhang" has been going on for quite some time, but the American news-media really never picks it up and puts it on Finance pages.

    See here - "The Balance site" see the evolution of National Debt since 1929. Title (scroll down to the "history-chart" 1929 to present):
    Debt by Year Compared to Nominal GDP and Events

    Right now the Debt-to-GDP Ratio is 129% and in 2010 it was 90%. Just where-in-hell is Uncle Sam going with his debt-pile .... ?
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2021
  24. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    I assumed that would be your answer and I disagree. At least 50% of Americans can't pay more in taxation without reducing other expenditures. And if people pay more taxes, and reduce current expenditures, this will negatively effect the economy. Your chart uses fear and is misleading to the average person.

    Even if the wealthy pay more taxes, if that revenue is used to pay down debt, this will also negatively effect the economy.

    IMO government needs to create an accurate and workable budget, with focus on spending reductions, and allocating money where we get the most payback...not on boondoggle or legacy items!

    Then decide the tax revenue to be collected and the sources careful not to hurt the economy. To me this means baby-steps over 2-3 decades...
     
  25. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Increased taxation could be necessary to pay the expanded-debt. Otherwise Uncle Sam must obtain EVEN MORE DEBT to pay-off the old-debt.

    Which can work until the debt-holders decide otherwise and they raise debt-costs to a far higher level. But, till then, they nonetheless hold Uncle Sam financially by the short-'n-curlies with the present debt level skyrocketing due to Covid ...

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2021

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