This is an example of why the ex-gay movement is so destructive

When Religious people convinced gays and lesbians that they can change theiur sexual orientation via behavior (marrying the opposite sex and having children), it ruins not only the individual's life, but the lives of the people attached to them. It's especially tragic for the children.

If you insist on conversion therapy, it is immoral to rope anyone else into your experiment.

 

Yeah because we know this is the only reason people get divorced......derp!

 

Who claimed this was the only reason people get divorced? (derp)

I applaud your efforts to refute arguments nobody made. Great job.

 

I think it was you that once replied to the affirmative when I asked if pedophiles are born that way. Should we try conversion therapy or let them be, and hope they don't commit crimes against children? Are you opposed to any conversion therapy, or just religious-based?

 

Dont as much as even see a reference to conversion therapy in your linked article.

 

I briefly scanned the article and I saw nothing about religion and conversion therapy. Who forced the people who were mentioned into straight marriages and will the one who turned out to be gay pay restitution for destroying a marriage created under false pretenses and return all the wedding gifts?

 

It's not analogous in the case because with homosexuality, there is no victim.

That being said, no, I don't think conversion therapy would work on them. No, I don't think they should be punished unless they have committed a crime.

Any conversion therapy that involves spouses or children.

I single out religion because of their specific methods...they believe that people can be converted by living a straight lifestyle, which includes a wife(or husband for females) and children. I am not opposed to any voluntary conversion therapy that does not involve other people.

I might even be ok with spouses being involved, so long as the spouse is aware of it, and they don't have children.

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So you didn't read the title of the thread then.

The article is showing examples. Living a straight lifestyle won't make you straight, and will ruin other people's lives in the process.

 

The fact there is no victim in a consensual adult homosexual act is not relevant to the question of innate or acquired pedophiles.

You do realize there's far more to religious-based therapy than simply providing a person with a spouse, a house and a living; and then telling them to "just do it?"

 

It is called sarcasm....look it up. It seems your panic is over divorce as if this is the only reason. What does it matter to you?

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So the OP is trying to refute an argument nobody made....lol!

 

I answered both questions.

The rest is irrelevant so long as a spouse and children are involved.

 

It was pretty poor sarcasm. It needs work.

Divorce is a small part of it. It is about beginning a relationship doomed to failure because of things that are not disclosed and cannot be changed. It is about ruining the lives of your spouse and children because of this (unnecessary) lie.

Nobody is making the argument that sexuality can be changed? If even you are admitting that, then maybe we've already won.

 

I think the case being made here is straightforward: many gays sincerely wish a long stable partnership, many are religious or otherwise feel marriage is the way to accomplish this. Of course, the law didn't allow them to marry someone they truly loved, but as the old nautical aphorism has it, any port in a storm. Or as CSN said, if you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're with.

For many gays, the internal tug of war was eventually too much. They wanted marriage and partnership, but they also wanted love and satisfaction. The law basiclally forced them into an unstable, unsatisfying marriage. And the irony is that the harder they tried, complete with children and property and all, the worse the consequences when they just couldn't keep up the charade any longer.

Today, people no longer need to face the risk of marrying someone whose orientation is incompatible, and eventually suffering the consequences. Even more reason why the recent decision had all winners and no losers except bigots.

 

Nah, I am not dumbing my posts down for anyone.

It sounds more like a bunch of liberal busy bodies trying to control other people's lives. Why can lefties mind their own bees wax?

Who said anything about "changing sexuality"? Your article mentions nothing about "conversion". It sounds like you are making quite a leap here.

 

Because you're using the government to push your ideology on us. Thats the real reason.

We'll push back until you're no longer able to do it. It's the American way.

The Ex Gay movement for one. Dixon has made that claim as well.

It sounds like you're not actually reading what you are responding to.

 

Not really, I'd say. These gays who married straights really wanted to marry, and probably sincerely hoped that eventually the gay would wear off or go away. Even Elton John tried that.

 

I think it went even deeper than that. It wasn't just about love, but about social acceptance, both in society at large and within their religion. Religions conditioned them to need this acceptance by threatening consequences after death if they did not comply in life.

As the article shows, the feelings don't go away just because you ape a straight life, and there are consequences to other people as well.

 

I am not using the government for anything.

Nah, your OP is totally bs. You are filling in the gaps of the article with your own fantasy in order to try and support your premise. Epic fail!

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So what? Do they not have the right to do that? No one is forcing them.

 

LOL! I see this thread has been moved to the land of obscurity. It really should be deleted. The article has nothing to do with the topic.

Bottom line is that people have a right to disagree with homosexuality. People also have a right to offer this "conversion therapy" and people have a right to go into this therapy if they so choose. Unless gays are being abducted and forced into therapy then it is no one's business. The liberal busy bodies that want to run everyone's lives should just be quiet.

 

The separation of sexuality from procreation entails its freedom from heterosexuality and its emergence as an individual attribute, something individuals can develop, enjoy, change or project as part of their changing definition of the self. Sexuality becomes plastic because the self itself has broken the bounds of traditional institutional expectations and it is now free to constitute and reconstitute itself in a series of narratives answering to nothing else but the growing freedom of individuals to develop their potential.
http://www.colorado.edu/Sociology/gimenez/work/GIDDENS.TXT

 

Odd that the medical profession embraces a 12 yr old who wants to change their gender while they feel it necessary to outlaw even the attempt to change sexual orientation.

 

I agree. Just marrying someone incompatible would be bad enough, but being forced into it by deep-seated religious requirement and social rejection makes it hard to resist. And of course it STILL doesn't work.

 

Depends on what you mean by force. Nobody would have dreamed of such a marriage, if anything more suitable were possible and if there weren't pervasive pressures to do so - the only way to have a family, often pressures from friends, from job expectations, you name it.

Now that gays can marry one another and now that social acceptance is widespread and growing, I doubt you'll ever see such a mixed marriage again. Which would imply that it wasn't exactly a free choice.

 

Then why do you support special rights for heterosexuals?

 

If anyone wants to outlaw that, it's a small minority.

 

You should report it then.

No one has made the argument that anyone should not be allowed to agree with homosexuality, even by implication. That is a non-sequitur.

And we have the right to criticize them for it.