Timbuktu: The Jewish-African Kingdom of Ghana

Discussion in 'History & Past Politicians' started by upside-down cake, Nov 3, 2014.

  1. upside-down cake

    upside-down cake Well-Known Member

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    Wow.

    So...I was not kidding when I said that I was looking into the history of Jewish or Hebrew people. I had begun by wadding through some ancient descriptions but these proved a little problematic at the beginning so I was in a process of disambiguation...which remains to this day since there is no set consensus about historical Hebrews thousands of years BC.

    However, what astounded me was that I came across African Jewsih Kingdoms. That freaking blew my mind. One of the most famous of these was Ghana, latter renamed Mali or Songhay. But Ghana was not only an African Jewish kingdom, but it was the cultural center of western Europe for centuries- a massive powerhouse of trade and learning and civilization in a period were Europeans were still a gathering of barbarian tribes hacking at each other. (this is not meant as a slight against Europeans, but this is the history EUropeans, themselves, hold up in their montages and romanticisms of medieval barbarian cultures centering largely around the martial cultures and the epidemic of violence in that region)

    Also, one of the great centers of Jewish prosperity recorded in Jewish history- second only to the original Israeli Kingdom- was Moorish Spain. The Moors invaded Spain and held it for a period of 800 years. While it was dominated by the Eastern Islamic Arabs, they famously accomodated Jews very well here. Moorish Spain, as well, was the cultural cpaital of Europe at the time. They held this land till the late 15th century when Christian forces succeeded in pushing them out. The Jews had largely left with the Moors fearing the Christian slaughter, and those did not leave were threatened to either convert, or be forced out or killed.

    This was really surprising and I'm in the process of looking more into it because I did not know this and it's one of those things that just doesn't get mentioned in our history. Most surprisng was the concept of Africa having a large role in the world, but then again I do remember a snippet of Venisian merchants sending dignitaries into Africa to meet with African merchants. Ghana's chief products were gold, iron, and grains- grains having been the most lucrative item.

    Did anyone else know of this?
     
  2. J0NAH

    J0NAH Banned

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    yes.

    i'll send you a link to a book in pdf form you might like or may even have read :)
     
  3. J0NAH

    J0NAH Banned

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  4. martin76

    martin76 New Member

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    I don´t know but maybe you are writting about Kingdom of Ghana of the Ghana Empire.. but what I don´t understand It´s Ghana was a muslim state not Jewish

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghana_Empire

    And, of course, in time Ghana Empire.. then Europe had created a Judeo-Christian civilization ... whose origins were in Classical Greece and the Roman Empire..a great culture: Aristotle, Plato, Hippocrates, Tito Livy etc. Maybe are you talking about other Ghana Empire older than Ancient Greece?

    Not Moorish Spain but Spain. In fact, Islam in Spain in a history of War, violence, looting etc... The histoy of the Moorish Spain (Al-Andalus) is the history of a succession of african Islamic fundamentalists invasions, that fortunatly spaniards defeated them. Of course there were times of brilliance, but whenever Islam in Spain was relaxing, it "europeanized", emerged a fundamentalist invasion from Africa. Among the three religions (Islamic, Jewish and Christian), the relationship was never tolerance. Islam often persecuted Christians and Jews and from the eleventh century, the Jews migrated en masse to Christian Spain. The myth of Moorish Spain is a XIX century romantic invention.
    Jews settled in Christian Spain from XI Century and the Escuela de Traductores (School of translators) was in the Christian Spain not in the Moorish one.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toledo_School_of_Translators

    The Toledo School of Translators (Spanish: Escuela de Traductores de Toledo) is the group of scholars who worked together in the city of Toledo during the 12th and 13th centuries, to translate many of the philosophical and scientific works from classical Arabic, classical Greek, and ancient Hebrew.

    The School went through two distinct periods separated by a transitional phase. The first was led by Archbishop Raymond of Toledo in the 12th century, who promoted the translation of philosophical and religious works, mainly from classical Arabic into Latin. Under King Alfonso X of Castile during the 13th century, the translators no longer worked with Latin as the final language, but translated into a revised version of Castilian. This resulted in establishing the foundations of the modern Spanish language.

    So, to think that the Jews weren´t in the Christian Spain is another myth that has absolutely no historical basis ... in fact there were more Jews in the Goth Spain than in the moorish one, from the eleventh century. In 1492 Spain expelled the Jews to achieve the religious unity of the country.
     
  5. J0NAH

    J0NAH Banned

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    wikipedia is not a respectable source. it is a reference point only and shouldnt be used a source. if you have to use it then link its primary source.

    That said, the Ashanti are one of many west afrikan nations with Israelite heritage and tradition;
    CIRCUMCISION,
    THE DIVISION OF THEIR TRIBES INTO TWELVE, BLOOD SPRINKLING UPON THEIR ALTARS AND DOOR POSTS,
    MARRYING OF THEIR BROTHER'S WIFE AFTER DEATH,
    SEPARATION AND PURIFICATION AFTER CHILD BIRTH,
    UNCLEANNESS DURING CHILD BIRTH,
    UNCLEANNESS DURING MENSTRUATION
    NEW MOON CELEBRATIONS

    Ashan (Ashan ti) was a place in Judah- http://biblehub.com/1_chronicles/6-59.htm
    The word Ashan in Hebrew means smoke city / burning city. ASHANTI means the people of Ashan or the people of the smoke city, This was the reference to the city of Ashan after the Romans destroyed it in 70 C.E.
     
  6. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    The custom of male circumcision predates the Jews by thousands of years.. It was a custom in ancient Egypt for the priestly class.
     
  7. J0NAH

    J0NAH Banned

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    yep and the jews came out of egypt.
     
  8. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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  9. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No, the original Jews came from Mesopotamia, moved northwest along the Fertile Crescent, and settled in Canaan.
     
  10. J0NAH

    J0NAH Banned

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    no they came out of taseti and went to mesopotamia.

    Israelite captive:
    ghana soccer star.jpg

    Ashanti (ghana) soccer star
    View attachment 31075
     
  11. J0NAH

    J0NAH Banned

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    if im not mistaken taseti(nubian) was the first administrative division in kamit (AEgypt)
     
  12. upside-down cake

    upside-down cake Well-Known Member

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    When did the Jews go to Egypt? Before or after they created Israel?
     
  13. upside-down cake

    upside-down cake Well-Known Member

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    Ghana eventually became an Islamic kingdom, but it started out as a Jewish kingdom.

    Also, the Jewish exodus from Spain after the Moors were conquered is pretty well known. It's also well known that Europe, at this time, was only beginning it's path to coming up to modern civilized standards. The Moorish rule of Spain was one of the more benign in Europe. The barbarism occured when the Spanish took over. Not to say that the Moors are beyond their own brutalities, but Moorish Spain was culturally way beyond the other European civilizations at the time (not Meditteranean ones...) and perhaps among the most advanced. Northern Europe at this period was crawling out of the Dark Ages.
     
  14. martin76

    martin76 New Member

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    About Ghana I know nothing, so If you say It was a Jewish kingdom, ok.. but I don´t know how could be a Jewish kingdom in that time.
    No, It was brutal... Spain had to resist the integrist invasions came from Africa:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almoravid_dynasty (Almoravid defeated by Alfonso XI Castille)
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almohad_Caliphate (Almohad defeated in Las Navas de Tolosa, the worst muslim defeat in the Middle Age)
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marinid_dynasty (Marinid or Benimerin defeated in El Salado).

    In Spain, Moors were in a continuos war. .they burnt, looted, killed..from 711 to 1492... many years and generations.Jewish people prefered to live in the Spanish Christian kingdoms from XI Century.
     
  15. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    Look, they were a FEUDAL society. That means basically that everybody fought everybody all the time. Even implying that one group kept up a continuous warfare on another one that was even largely innocent of wrongdoing themselves for 700 years is ridiculous on the face of it. The Christians, Jews, Moors, Arabs and more, all formed a rich tapestry that made and makes Spain unique among nations on the Earth.
     
  16. martin76

    martin76 New Member

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    First, the feudalism in Spain was very light... in Castilla almost non-existent. Spain was a frontier land, with a frontier spirit and frontiermen... independent and free, not like english, german or frenchmen.
    Second... from 711 to 1492 how many years in wars? every year a battle or a raid, or an ambush. Almoravid, Almohad and Benimerin were islamic integrist... from XI century, thousands Jew migrated to the Christian kingdoms. I know there is a romantic tale, beautiful about Moorish Spain... but it is only a tale..invented by british, french and american romantics writers in XIX century. In fact, the Al-Andalus romantic myth came from Chateubriand...
    Pierre Guichard (http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Guichard_(historien)) teaches how the relations between moorish and spaniards were ruled by the War.. only a few years in peace... between 711 to 1492!!!!!! not even 25 years!!!!!!!!!

    During the twentieth century,Western multiculturalists began to imagine utopias of cultural and ethnic “diversity”,as they liked to put it,in which distinct cultures and civilizations would coexist harmoniously.This ideal became a prominent feature of cultural and educational institutions in western Europe and,especially,North America.

    Not, Spain wasn´t the Californian UCLA in 1968... not, the Reconquista wasn´t the Flower Power, the hippies and the Beach Boys... It was a question of War against Islam..
    Of course, Al-Andalus had a cultural grandeur, but it was short in time and not more important than the spanish kingdoms cultural splendor.. like It was the School of Toledo.

    I am interesting to know if the Ghana Kingdom had a cultural grandeur or it was military or economic power?
     
  17. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    Jews fled Spain and settled back in different areas of Europe, Palestine and the Middle East... and many went to what is now Brazil. Many went to the Netherlands.
     
  18. J0NAH

    J0NAH Banned

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    Today you will find the descendants of these Jews in the West African countries such as: Sierra Leone, Liberia,Senegal, Ghana, Nigeria, and many other areas.According to the 17th century Tarikh al-Fattash and the Tarikh al-Sudan, several Jewish communities existed as parts of the Ghana, Mali, and later Songhay empires. One such community was formed by a group of Egyptian Jews, who allegedly traveled by way of the Sahel corridor through Chad into Mali. Manuscript C of the Tarikh al-Fattash described a community called the Bani Israel; in 1402, it lived in Tindirma, possessed 333 wells, and had seven princes as well as an army.

    Another such community was that of the Zuwa ruler of Koukiya (located at the Niger River). His name was known only as Zuwa Alyaman, meaning "He comes from Yemen". According to an isolated local legend, Zuwa Alyaman was a member of one of the Jewish communities transported from Yemen by Abyssinians in the 6th century CE after the defeat of Dhu Nuwas. Zuwa Alyaman was said to have traveled into West Africa along with his brother. They established a community in Kukiya at the banks of the Niger River downstream from Gao. According to the Tarikh al-Sudan, after Zuwa Alyaman, there were 14 Zuwa rulers of Gao before the rise of Islam in the second half of the eleventh century.

    Other sources stated that other Jewish communities in the region developed from people who migrated from Morocco and Egypt; others later came from Portugal. Some communities were said to have been populated by certain Berber Jews, like a group of Tuareg known as Dawsahak or Iddao Ishaak ("children of Isaac"). They speak a language related to Songhay, live in northeast Mali in the region of Menaka and were formerly herders for Tuareg nobles.[6] In addition, some migrated into the area away from the Muslim rule of North Africa.
    - wiki.
     
  19. J0NAH

    J0NAH Banned

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    The largest influx of Jews to Africa came after the Spanish Inquisition after the Fall of Granada and the end of Islamic Spain. The mass exodus and expulsion of the Iberian Jews began in 1492, Sicilian Jews were affected soon afterwards. Many of these Sephardic Jews settled in North Africa under Muslim and Ottoman patronage. Morocco, Tunisia, Algeria, and Egypt became home to significant Jewish communities.

    -wiki
     
  20. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Wiki is a poor source as anyone can edit it
     
  21. J0NAH

    J0NAH Banned

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    true.

    The most ancient communities of African Jews known to the Western world are the Ethiopian, Sephardic and Mizrahi Jews of North Africa and Middle Africa.

    Largely unknown in the West until quite recently are communities of the African Jews such as the Lemba (located in present-day Malawi, Zimbabwe, and northern South Africa). Some among the Igbo of Nigeria, the Annang/Efik/Ibibio of Akwa Ibom State and Cross River State of Nigeria, Cameroon, and Equatorial Guinea) claim descent from East Africa and Jews in Algeria, Tunisia, Morocco, Libya and Egypt, which were trading partners from ancient times.

    In the seventh century, many Spanish Jews fled persecution under the Visigoths to North Africa, where they made their homes in the Byzantine-dominated cities along the Mediterranean coast. Others arrived after the expulsion from Iberia. Remnants of longstanding Jewish communities remain in Morocco, Tunisia and the Spanish cities of Ceuta and Melilla. There is a much-diminished but still vibrant community on the island of Djerba in Tunisia. Many Jews from North Africa emigrated to North America in the early 20th century. Since 1948 and the civil war to establish Israel, which aroused hostility in Muslim lands, most other North African Jews emigrated. They went to Israel, France and Spain.

    Of the seventh century immigrants, some moved inland and proselytized among the Berber tribes. A number of tribes, including the Jarawa, Uled Jari, and some tribes of the Daggatun people, may have converted to Judaism.[1] Ibn Khaldun reported that Kahina, a female Berber warlord who led the resistance against the Arab invaders of North Africa in the 680s and 690s, was a Jew of the Jarawa tribe. With the defeat of the Berber resistance, none of the Jewish communities was initially forced to convert to Islam.[2]


    -wiki

    - http://www.re-emergingfilm.com/
     
  22. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    What do you mean by "light" Feudalism? Feudalism is a sort of anarchy, yes? so it's pretty much a "light" sort of government anyway

    I'm not saying that Spain was some sort of Paradise where everybody got along, just that it was pretty much like the rest of Europe and even most of the world at that time, something of an anarchistic hell where every man's hand was raised against everyone else, at least by our standards. People of different religions pretty much hated each other, no doubt. OTOH they also lived together in a very uneasy peace most of the time. The muslims were certainly not models of tolerance for the Jews, no, but, Spain was known as a place where there wasn't a pogrom against them every other week either.

    To put it another way you seem to be saying that Islam and Christianity were at each other like Germany and America from 1941 to 1945 for 700 years. That's just not possible. It's more like America and Russia from 1946 to 1989, or France and England during the Hundred Years "War", a generalized sort of hostility throughout, with wars every so often
     
  23. martin76

    martin76 New Member

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    Of course, During the Middle Age wasn´t possible a Total War.. it was more like the Hundred Years wars, although less peacetime. .the truces were shorter, not more than 2 or 3 years. The Jews were not expelled until 1492... and only those who did not convert to Catholicism. And many, many had to stay as christians.
     
  24. martin76

    martin76 New Member

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    Yes, and many jews continued living as christian. By the way, not only Spain expelled the Jews...It is another mistake of the Black Legend: Spain expelled Jews... as many other european countries... as England under Edward I in 1290... exactly 202 years before the Catholic Kings. or France... under Philip II in 1182 (310 years before), Only in XIV century the French kings made 4 massive expulsions of Jews: 1306, 1321, 1322 and 1394. Also Austria (1421) and Parma (1488) expelled Jewish...Spain was one of the last countries to expel Jews. In fact, in the Crown of Castille, Jews had great position like Abraham Seneor, chief of the Holy Brotherhood (Police, Home Ministery, nowadays) in 1488 or the Great chief of Holy Inquisition, Torquemada, "His grandparents were of the lineage of the Jews converted to our Holy Catholic faith".
    Other countries expelled their jewish populations were Poland, Bohemia, Lithuania, Moravia, Hungary etc etc etc...It was a mistake and an injustice, but it was not an isolated event but a common trend across Europe.
     
  25. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    I was focused on Spain and Portugal, but you are correct...... I guess many remained as "conversos"... Must have been difficult.
     

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