Time magazine puts trans actor Elliot Page on cover

Time magazine puts trans actor Elliot Page on cover

X-Men and Juno star Elliot Page recalled in an extensive TIME interview wanting to "be a boy" by the age of nine and opened up about coming out as transgender and having a "lifesaving" double mastectomy.

https://www.breitbart.com/entertain...p-surgery-mastectomy-desire-to-be-a-boy-at-9/



And by "lifesaving", I don't think they're talking about cancer here.


I personally think she looks much better as a girl than a boy.

 

Usually these F to M trans makeovers are not attractive women, so the general loss of female beauty is nil, but in this case, she was quite a beautiful woman before the mutilation. However, she is exercising a societal prerogative: Young beautiful woman hold all of societies cards in their youth, and men hold those cards as they get older. So she's living the best of both worlds.

 

All fine until the crappy bit at the end of the article about her pushing leftist policy and environmentalism. what the hell is that got to do with it?

It must have been a difficult and long-drawn psychological process for Page. I wish Page all the best.

 

Here is a scene with her in the movie X-men: The Last Stand


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kel91O0d_cg



Here is what she looks like as a boy:
Elliot Page opens up wanting to be to be a boy while growing up (bollywoodlife.com)

 

Gender confirmation surgery can absolutely save a person’s life if their gender dysphoria is leading to suicidal ideations.

Why do you think your opinion of his appearance is relevant to the matter?

 

If someone is more comfortable in a different skin, have at it, at their own cost.

I see no purpose in making a big public deal about something that .3% of the world's population are going through. There are a lot more important concerns in the world.

 

Statistically, the process just contributes to more suicide in the folks who transform like this. There is likely very little improvement in life quality as observed in several long term studies.

From the literature: When ‘the tumult and shouting dies,’ it proves not easy nor wise to live in a counterfeit sexual garb. The most thorough follow-up of sex-reassigned people—extending over 30 years and conducted in Sweden, where the culture is strongly supportive of the transgendered—documents their lifelong mental unrest. Ten to 15 years after surgical reassignment, the suicide rate of those who had undergone sex-reassignment surgery rose to 20 times that of comparable peers.
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0016885


That's pretty bleak. I know these folks don't want our pity, but at some point, one just has to ask why mutilating yourself to overcome the idea that you just cannot accept being homosexual, like I said, I just don't get it.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/juno-star-ellen-page-reveals-she-lesbian-n31091

 

Your percentage is probably a bit off. Low end estimates suggest about 1.2% of the world population. That’s roughly 94.5 million people. Not exactly an insignificant number.

 

Trans suicidality rates are most heavily impacted by societal acceptance. Having at least one supportive close family member reduces the rate by approximately 14/15ths. Trans people are not inherently suicidal.

 

My source.
The Search for the Best Estimate of the Transgender Population - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

 

Fair enough. Seems an exact percentage is hard to com by. Even at .3% that’s still 23.6 million. Not insignificant.

 

Show some study data that supports your assertion. And frankly, are you suggesting that societal acceptance is the only factor? That seems unlikely as, given the example of ellen/elliot who publicly was embraced for "her" then lesbianism. Why then, the need to otherwise overcome a homosexual orientation to overcome a perception of societal disproval? That seems unlikely. And the data still suggest that long term dissatisfaction and self harm increase dramatically over time.

I don't believe in stopping folks here, I am though, pointing out that the trauma of dealing with the dysphoria long term invites a significantly higher potential of future harm. Why would you deny this?

 

Always happy to back up my arguments.

“To attain a recent measure of suicide risk, we asked participants if they had considered suicide in the past year, and whether they had attempted it. Consideration of suicide was common, and was reported by 35% of youth whose parents were strongly supportive and 60% of those whose parents were not strongly supportive. Particularly alarming is that among this latter 60%, nearly all (57%) had actually attempted suicide in the past year. In contrast, only 4% of those with strongly supportive parents attempted suicide. While 4% is still far too high, the impact of strong parental support can be clearly seen in the 93% reduction in reported suicide attempts for youth who indicated their parents were strongly supportive of their gender identity and expression.”
https://transpulseproject.ca/wp-con...g-Parental-Support-for-Trans-Youth-vFINAL.pdf

Trans suicide rates are absolutely tied to societal acceptance and other related issues. Parental/familial support was the first thing that came to mind, but trans people face a whole host of external factors that make their lives worse. It’s no surprise that a minority group that’s attacked for their very identity suffers adverse mental health affects.

I’m not denying anything here. I just reject the assertions you’re making about the validity of trans people.

 

They aren't my assertions. I supplied long term well documented study data from Sweden. If you have an issue with their conclusions, take it up with them, And frankly, you're own citation doesn't in any way discount the Swedish study's findings. Read your conclusion, compare it to the long term effects for which they didn't study for. Then tell us again why your citation should be considered credible here.

You seem to want to ascribe a position to me that I haven't taken. I haven't asserted anything about the validity of trans people. Why would you lie like this? It's baffling. Pointing out that the population who transitions surgically suffer over time, and are 20xs more likely to self harm in the future isn't a "validity" claim. Those are simply the facts. Facts that you seem to intentionally want to ignore.

 

Did a little more research on the study you cited. I found an interview with Cecilia Dhejne that you may find relevant.

Of note:
“Dhejne: People who misuse the study always omit the fact that the study clearly states that it is not an evaluation of gender dysphoria treatment. If we look at the literature, we findthat several recent studiesconclude that WPATH Standards of Care compliant treatment decrease gender dysphoria and improves mental health.”
https://www.transadvocate.com/fact-...ition-makes-trans-people-suicidal_n_15483.htm

My assertion that your statements attempt to attack the validity of trans people stems from the following:
“That's pretty bleak. I know these folks don't want our pity, but at some point, one just has to ask why mutilating yourself to overcome the idea that you just cannot accept being homosexual, like I said, I just don't get it.”

Where are you getting the idea that transsexualism or the act of transitioning has anything to do with homosexuality?

 

He*

I mean, yay, I'm glad for Elliott. So long as he's happy that's all that matters.

 

Then you don't understand the written word as noted. Sorry, but the comment doesn't omit anything about the conclusions of the long term results. The condition that additional counseling is required seems to indicate that the dysphoria itself isn't overcome by the surgical results. So, why not? The comment also doesn't compare an apple to the orange in this case. There is zero evidence that the improvement noted in any way diminishes the propensity. So, the study itself doesn't attempt to make the leap you are.

Just because I find the choice bleak doesn't mean that is a validity response. Face the fact that you made a specious unsupported attack, and then own up to it. You might even apologize for so rudely trying to float this. So, the question then remains. Why, given societal acceptance of homosexuality, what other conditions exist that contribute to the dysphoria trans folks endure? Women oriented to other women and men oriented to other men seems pretty generally accepted throughout our society today. And folks, like me, rejoice in that. It would benefit you to at least attempt to know your audience. My personal opinion is that I don't understand the reason for the dysphoria, and wrote this. Given that society doesn't demean gay or lesbian folks, what is there that still moves the trans folks to more transformative means? Try getting over your bias here.

 

The person who conducted the study has stated that your take is no good.

That said, as much as you seem like to hearing yourself blather on, I’m less enthralled. Ignored the rest of your post.

 

Of course you did. Sorry, no participation awards given here. Your unwillingness to own your own behavior seems pretty intolerant of others and their attempts to correct your untruthful attacks. It strikes me as ironic then that you would expect others to be tolerant of your opinion or concerns..

 

Going to ignore that she said you’re wrong? That’s fine. Its what I’ve come to expect. Best to ignore facts when they’re not on your side.

 

I regret that you aren't able to comprehend what someone wrote. And of course, you're entirely willing to be intolerant. And that's ironic.

When you come up with a study that indicates that the long term observations overcome the collected data, you'll get back to us, huh... I won't be holding my breath as your willingness to simply ignore data to push your narrative here is quite abundantly clear.

 

The author of the study you’re citing has stated that you’ve got a bad take. The mental gymnastics you’re going through are extraordinary.

 

Then be honest. She said that consuming mental health improves the condition of those with dysphoria. Where does she indicate that long term, the same observed rate of suicide was improved ty that consumption? She doesn't, you guessed at data that doesn't exist, and are now, you've painted yourself into the corner of intentionally making a claim not supported from the citation you mischaracterized. What a fun amount of tumbling you're willing to do today.

 

I assume you can do a better job of phrasing your point. This is indecipherable.

 

I may have missed it, but I find it strange that the study did not compare the suicide rate of individuals with GID who did not have reassignment surgery vs those that did.

Also note that suicides for female to male transgenders actually dropped below that of females in the general population but was still higher than males — so it does have some positive impact. I would argue it is easier for a woman to become a male in outward appearance than the opposite.

https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc...ng-term-mental-health-benefits-study-n1079911
This is a pretty recent article that highlights occurrence of suicide attempts decreases in people who transition vs those that do not and that the mental health benefits increase every year after transitioning.