Travis McMichael says in his murder trial that he felt threatened by Ahmaud Arbery

I think it is not too difficult to argue the law should have allowed them to follow Arbery with guns.

Is this issue what this entire story boils down to? Or not?

I totally concede that the level of suspicion was not enough for them to physically detain him. And I think that Travis knew this, at least on some level. But the level of suspicion may arguably have been enough for them to follow him.

 

They didn't just follow him. And they did physically detain him.

 

I've argued that almost everything they did was legal.

I've also argued that what they did did not constitute "arrest" or "detainment" in a way that should be seen as illegal. And that the precise details of what they did may not have even been entirely intentional towards that effect.

Guns were only pointed at Arbery while he was running towards the person holding the gun. Both times Travis pointed his gun at Arbery and threatened him it had seemed like Arbery was trying to take him by surprise and take his gun.

 

We've discussed this already. For one thing, Arbery had already gone through the "roadblock" and sort of turned back before he was shot.

The creation of the roadblock may not have been entirely intentional, for reasons already described. You can see it in the video.
Travis does not begin moving to the left side of the road, blocking that path, until it seems like Arbery is going to take the other path in the opposite direction from that. So Travis is moving in the opposite direction from Arbery when Travis walks away from his truck.

The truck was only stopped in one lane of the road, and had stopped at a time when Arbery was running away from the truck.

Both of these things are not the obvious indicators one would expect if this was an attempted roadblock.

 

WHY? What did they do wrong? Try to detain a suspected burglar for the police?

I did watch it, it is simply on the cusp and this could be determined one way or the other. But do they really deserve to spend the rest of their lives in prison?

They DID have reasonable suspicion, Arbery attacked Travis who killed HIM in self defence when he tried to detain him for the police.

I agree, it all falls down to what people consider reasonable, I might have done the same in their situation.

 

Heck, I would say they didn't even actually try to detain the suspect.

Ironically the one of them that actually committed the killing was the one that we can make the strongest argument that he did not actually try to detain the suspect.

It's more than that. Watch the video. It doesn't even look like Travis actually tried to detain Arbery.

Travis is being viewed as guilty because he previously followed Arbery in his truck, and then because he stopped the truck, "allegedly" knowing that even though the suspect was running away from him at the time, the suspect might soon be running back because Bryan had circled around from the other direction; and then finally for stepping out if his truck holding a gun, even though Travis only began walking away from the direction it seemed like the suspect was going to take or was taking.

Travis only points the gun and threatens Arbery the first time when it seems to him Arbery has suddenly changed direction and might be trying to run at him from behind and catch him by surprise.

Notice the circular logic of those who argue Travis is guilty. They say he did not have the right to use self defense the second time because he threatened Arbery the first time. But he only threatened Arbery the first time so he would not have to use self defense.

That puts Travis in a "damned if he did, damned if he didn't" situation. Travis tried to avoid the need to shoot Arbery in self defense the first time, and then for that it is being argued he committed a "crime" and therefore had no right to use self defense the second time.

 

Travis McMichael gets 2nd life sentence for federal hate crime conviction in Ahmaud Arbery's killing
Source: CNN

"Travis McMichael, one of the three White men who killed Ahmaud Arbery, was sentenced Monday to life in prison plus 10 years after he was convicted earlier this year of interference with rights, a federal hate crime, and attempted kidnapping in connection with the 25-year-old Black man's 2020 killing.

His father Gregory McMichael and their neighbor William "Roddie" Bryan are due to be sentenced later Monday at the same Georgia courthouse on convictions of the same federal charges. All three are already serving life sentences for their convictions in state court on a series of charges related to Arbery's killing, including felony murder.

Travis McMichael's life sentence is to be served concurrently with his state sentence, US District Court Judge Lisa Godbey Wood ruled.

The three White men who killed Ahmaud Arbery each could receive another life sentence Monday, when they are due to appear in federal court in Georgia to learn how they will be punished for convictions on hate crime charges."

Read more: https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/08/us/ahmaud-arbery-hate-crime-federal-sentencing/index.html

 

Link:

Greg McMichael seeks leniency in Arbery hate crime sentencing - The Current (thecurrentga.org)


"Greg McMichael seeks leniency in Arbery hate crime sentencing
McMichael’s lawyer wants to serve sentence in federal prison, rather than state penitentiary.
by Jake ShoreAugust 2nd, 2022Updated August 3rd, 2022

Greg McMichael, right, waits for the sentencing of he and his son Travis McMichael, and a neighbor, William "Roddie" Bryan in the Glynn County Courthouse, Friday, Jan. 7, 2022, in Brunswick, Ga. The three found guilty in the February 2020 slaying of 25-year-old Ahmaud Arbery. (AP Photo/Stephen B. Morton, Pool)

Greg McMichael, who was convicted along with his son, Travis, and their neighbor in the inflammatory killing of Ahmaud Arbery in February 2020, is making a last ditch effort to lessen his punishment.

McMichael, 66, and his son Travis, 36, and William “Roddie” Bryan, 52, were convicted of both state murder charges and federal hate crimes. They received life sentences in state Superior Court and are scheduled to be sentenced on Aug. 8 at the U.S. federal courthouse in Brunswick.

Now, the elder McMichael is requesting that his incarceration occur in federal prison instead of state prison, where he claims he is a target by other inmates for his role in Arbery’s death and because of his status as a former law enforcement officer, according to a sentencing memo filed on Monday.

It’s the same accommodation that he tried to receive in a plea deal that was rejected before the hate crimes trial commenced.

“To ensure the physical safety of Greg McMichael, however, he should not be sent to a state prison system whose very operation may enable inmates to engage in dangerous and even deadly activity,” his lawyer, A.J. Balbo, wrote.


The Ahmad Arbery mural painted by artist Marvin Weeks. Credit: Jeffery M. Glover/ The Current
Balbo, based in Richmond Hill, cites how the Georgia prison system is under investigation by the Justice Department, which is looking into whether the system’s conditions adequately protects prisoners from violence and sexual abuse.

previous reporting in The Current (Greg McMichael denies making those statements). Other evidence pointed to how Travis McMichael used the “n-word” and other vulgar language to describe Black people. Witnesses said Bryan frequently denigrated Black people in conversation and upon learning that his daughter was dating a Black man, Bryan wrote that she “doesn’t have respect for herself.”

Cont: @ link

 

Ahmaud Arbery murder | Sentencing for men in hate crime charges | khou.com


Father of Ahmaud Arbery’s shooter gets life for hate crime | Live updates
Scroll below to see live updates.

BRUNSWICK, Ga. — Months after they were sentenced to life in prison for murder, the three white men who chased and killed Ahmaud Arbery in a Georgia neighborhood faced a second round of criminal penalties Monday for federal hate crimes committed in the deadly pursuit of the 25-year-old Black man.

U.S. District Court Judge Lisa Godbey Wood scheduled back-to-back hearings to individually sentence each of the defendants, starting with Travis McMichael, who blasted Arbery with a shotgun after the street chase initiated by his father and joined by a neighbor.

LIVE UPDATES:
Sentencing is underway for the three men convicted of killing Ahmaud Arbery, a young black man, because of the color of his skin back in 2020. Travis McMichael and his father, Greg McMichael’s sentencing was held earlier and Bryan’s at 3 p.m.

1:40 p.m. | Greg McMichael, who chased Ahmaud Arbery with his son, sentenced to life in prison plus seven years.

1:35 p.m. | "The lost that you've endured is beyond description," Greg McMichael said to the court, recognizing his words may not mean much to them but wanted to make clear.

"I never wanted any of this to happen," he said.

He also apologized to his son, Travis McMichael, for putting him in a terrible situation and to his wife, also thanking her for standing by his side.

"Finally, I pray that God's peace will come to the Arbery family and this entire community," McMichael said.

Travis McMichael did not make a statement before his sentencing.

To the family of #AhmaudArbery, Greg McMichael says, “The loss you’ve endured is beyond description. I never wanted any of this to happen, there was no malice in my heart or my son’s heart that day.” @FCN2go

— anne schindler (@schindy) August 8, 2022
1:23 p.m. | Before a judge approached Greg McMichael's sentencing, his attorney presented characteristics to consider before determining his legal punishment including his time during the Navy, his age, and his medical history. McMichael is 66 years old.

“I am unable to forgive you at this time,” #AhmaudArbery’s aunt tells Greg McMichael in a victim impact statement. "Every time I see that video and witness how Ahmaud was hunted down and killed like he was an animal, I gasp for breath.” @FCN2go pic.twitter.com/mBFNNvt2D0

— anne schindler (@schindy) August 8, 2022
1 p.m. | Court has resumed with Greg McMichael's sentencing. Five people are going to give victim impact statements.

12 p.m. | Court is in recess. They will resume at 1 p.m. with Greg McMichael's sentencing.

11:20 a.m. | Reaction from outside the courtroom:

Ahmaud's mother:

cont:

Ahmaud Arbery murder | Sentencing for men in hate crime charges | khou.com

 

Th I s was murder but not a hate crime. This could of happened to a white guy they suspected of burglary. A misuse of the hate crime law.

 

A travesty, these poor guys railroaded to appease rioters. Let's hope their appeals succeed.

 

Say wha?

This is what they were charged under:


Conspiracy Against Rights, 18 U.S.C. § 241

This statute makes it unlawful for two or more persons to conspire to injure, threaten, or intimidate a person in any state, territory, or district in the free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege secured to him or her by the Constitution or the laws of the U.S.

 

Just like Chauvin & Co were really innocent, eh?

Hopefully all 3 have to serve their time in a Georgia state prison, not a federal.

 

McMichaels sentenced to life terms, William 'Roddie' Bryan gets 35 years for federal hate crime convictions in Ahmaud Arbery's killing | National | kwwl.com


[Breaking news update, published at 4:20 p.m. ET]

"William "Roddie" Bryan Jr., one of the three White men convicted in the killing of Ahmaud Arbery, was sentenced to 35 years Monday after his federal convictions this year on interference with rights -- a hate crime -- along with attempted kidnapping.

Bryan's sentencing in a federal courtroom in Georgia came soon after his neighbors, father and son Gregory and Travis McMichael, were sentenced to life plus seven years and 10 years, respectively, on weapons charges.


All three already are serving life sentences for their convictions in state court on a series of charges related to the February 2020 killing of the 25-year-old Black man, including felony murder."

 

I thought hate crimes had to do with skin color or ethniticity, or religion. Has that changed?

 

Absolutely, so much for justice, trial by misinformed and hypocritical public opinion. All those guys must be released.

 

"

I know, especially those damn videos, they all musta been edited.
I'm sure they'd love to hear from you that they "must be released", you can do the pen-pal thingy.
While you're at it email both the judges and make those demands of yours.

 

I'll crack another beer open tonight for the fact these felons are facing justice. Especially the murdering thug Travis McMichael.

 

Is this murder? Possibly. Is it a hate crime? No, that’s totally absurd.

 

Of course they are, they did nothing wrong, the justice system now ignores the facts and appeases the rioters.

Definitely, poor guys, locked up for just trying to be good neighbours.

For what? Trying to detain a suspected burglar for the police and then killing him in self defence when he attacks them?

 

For illegally, criminally trying to detain an innocent man and then murdering that man when he defended himself against his violent crime. His victim was the one acting in self defense. He, the man you are defending, was the violent criminal. Murdering someone isn't "being a good neighbor.

 

I think you are bias, you just hate white men.
I would characterize your speech as hate speech.

 

I appreciate the comedic satire, but there are actually people deluded enough to believe bullshit like that. It's sad.

 

You are bias in your judgments since you are trying exaggerate their guilt. There is reason to believe that those three men were evil murderers. What has happened is an unfortunate event, for some reason Ahmad Arbury decided to fight armed people and lost that fight.

 

Ah, I didn't realize I was facing this level of delusion. And is "biased" not "bias." Travis had no legal justification for trying to detain Arbury. He was the criminal here. Arbury acted in self defense against a violent crime. His only choices were to try to fight back against these criminals or to surrender and hope that the violent criminals who had threatened to kill him already would show him mercy. He chose to fight for his life against violent criminals, and they murdered him for it. I'm happy to discuss the details to defend my point, if you can bring yourself to do something more than race bait. You won't take me up on that offer, though.