Trump proposes repeal first, replace later plan.

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by pol meister, Jun 30, 2017.

  1. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    Look on the bright side. Once 120 Million people die from lack of health care Congress won't have to pass a health care bill.
     
  2. navigator2

    navigator2 Banned

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    Should shore up the unemployment numbers nicely too. I'll propose it to the cabinet. Thanks for the exaggeration!
     
  3. pol meister

    pol meister Well-Known Member

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    They can also cancel you when big government mandates like ObamaCare make it too expensive for them to carry you any more. In fact, an estimated 1.4 million will lose their ObamaCare insurance this year alone.

    At least 1.4 million people in 32 states will lose the Obamacare plan they have now, according to state officials contacted by Bloomberg. That’s largely caused by Aetna Inc., UnitedHealth Group Inc. and some state or regional insurers quitting the law’s markets for individual coverage.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...n-in-obamacare-to-lose-plans-as-insurers-quit
     
  4. The Mello Guy

    The Mello Guy Well-Known Member

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  5. navigator2

    navigator2 Banned

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  6. The Mello Guy

    The Mello Guy Well-Known Member

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    That is not currently the law nor is it in the senate bill. The post I replied to seem to be saying to leave it how it is...where those with preexisting conditions can still get covered and don't pay more
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2017
  7. gamewell45

    gamewell45 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What's the incentive for both houses to "replace" once it's repealed?
     
  8. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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  9. RPA1

    RPA1 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think there is a consensus among the American people in the fear of an indivudal's catastrophic health problem that will inevitably drain one's savings etc. This, I believe, could be covered by a catastrophic-government care program. Other than that, for everyday health problems, let the doctors and health insurance companies compete on a nationwide basis. Also, since most catastrophic health problems start with the onset of old age, medicare could be expanded to include this catastrophic situation.
     
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  10. pol meister

    pol meister Well-Known Member

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    Good question. Apparently, what remains after repeal is the non-reconciliation portion which consists of the various healthcare related subsidies, grants, and pork-barrel BS that most members of congress love voting for.

    People like Rand Paul think a lot of Democrats will sign on to the replacement bill because of that. The only incentive for the Republicans is to believe that they can at least reign in the healthcare entitlement state better than the Democrats can, as long as they still hold the majority.

    Never-the-less, I still think the replacement part will be a political loser for the Republicans.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2017
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  11. Texan

    Texan Well-Known Member

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    Then let's do nothing and let it fail. I'll do what it takes to take care of my family.

    Pretty soon the Democrats will be begging to repeal 0bamacare because they are still taking the blame for it. How many state and federal political seats have they lost since they shoved this "you have to pass it to know what's in it" crap down our throats? Republicans have to be careful of putting their name on this with a partial repeal. We need to step back to what we had and then carefully decide what we can do to improve our healthcare.

    Trump has already said that the politically smart thing to do would be to let 0care fester and eat at the Democrats. He should have kept his mouth shut, but I agree. Repealing it in it's entirety would be better for the people, so that's the argument for repealing it, political posturing be damned.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2017
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  12. In The Dark

    In The Dark Well-Known Member

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    I voted with vigor since 2010 for Republicans with the only goal of stopping Obamacare. They effed me at every turn.

    Done. Their racket is clear. Bigger government for all. The ratchet goes only one way.

    I await revolution, literal or figurative.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2017
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  13. Texan

    Texan Well-Known Member

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    I think that is how Trump won the Republican primary. His fingerprints aren't on the Republican timidity and self serving ways of the last 7 years. He and Ted Cruz were both political outsiders in one way or another and they had the vast majority of the primary votes. Trump is a PR train wreck, but his agenda seems to be better than that of the limp wristed PC Congress. I still have hope that he can get enough Republicans in line to steer his agenda, but we'll see. He is worth the election on his SC picks alone.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2017
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  14. Ashwin Poonawal

    Ashwin Poonawal Active Member

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  15. Texan

    Texan Well-Known Member

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    The problem I see with your post is that you are looking at the here and now as far as the pain of repealing 0bamacare. Everyone was getting ER care before 0bamacare, but to many people are being priced out of the market. I'm paying $12k a year with $3k deductible per family member for a family of 4 healthy people. That's about $15k/year after prescriptions, co-pays, labwork, and premiums for 4 HEALTHY people.
     
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  16. pol meister

    pol meister Well-Known Member

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    If success is measured by the number of poor we can keep dependent upon government, that seems like a pretty poor definition of success. It serves only to keep the poor poor, and to make those having to subsidize them poorer. It is essentially a flight to the bottom, not a race to the top.

    ObamaCare is an albatross that hangs around the neck of this country; stifling progress, stifling self-reliance; stifling business; stifling the middle-class; stifling our economy. The only thing it raises to a higher level is our national debt, and the number of Republicans holding state and national offices. To the latter part, that is the only positive I can see from ObamaCare. But the Republican majorities were not put there just to be there, they were put there to accomplish a task, and that task is to repeal ObamaCare; not replace it, fix it, patch it, or tweak it. No, their mission is to repeal it, and the time has come to accomplish that mission.

    Returning to the pre-ObamaCare world of 2009 is not the end of the world, it is the beginning of the rebirth of our personal and constitutional liberties. Medicaid will still exist, Medicare will still exist, health insurance will still exist, and healthcare will still exist. The only difference being that the healthcare industry will find themselves more compelled to serve the needs of the people, and the people less compelled to serve the needs of the healthcare industry.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2017
  17. MolonLabe2009

    MolonLabe2009 Banned

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    YEEEEESSSSSS!!!!!!
     
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  18. Ashwin Poonawal

    Ashwin Poonawal Active Member

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    Time has come to look at reality rather than theories. What works in the books does not always work in the real world.

    The United States of America was founded on the basis of decentralization of state’s power, curtailing the power’s potential for injustice. The dazzling success of the system has made the concepts of democracy and capitalism popular around the world. The existing form of capitalism worked very well for a while, because then, wealth making power could not converge easily into a few hands. Industrialization has changed that. Now a few rich have undesirably high power to manipulate wealth distribution and politics, and to influence social values. Unrestricted capitalism favors the rich. It is easier to make money with money than by working. Extreme greed for wealth and the power of highly concentrated wealth has a degrading effect on community.

    Man is a social animal. In a community, attitudes of the perceived leaders set trends, and the followers reinforce each other’s thinking accordingly, creating euphoria over time. This is how ordinary people gear up for heroic efforts in times of community crisis, like wars. Now big money makers have become roll-models, and have too high an influence on community’s thinking. As a result, now ruthless greed generated by reckless enterprise has become popular world over. Too many of them heedlessly fall in the spider web of our luring credit industry, sinking deeper in misery. And seeking and pursuing quick money-making schemes makes one abhor hard work. Being valuable to society by honest work has gone out of fashion.

    Simply defined, morality is: ‘Do unto others as you would have done unto you’. The existing degenerate environment of greed forces new entrepreneurs to compromise their moral convictions and adopt cunning ways. This craving for quick gratification is evident in mature and growing economies all over the world. Look at how processed food is made unhealthy with harmful preservatives and cheap ingredients, the quality of food in chain restaurants has degraded over the years, farm produce is made unhealthy by high-breeding, and the quality of dairy products by rampant use of hormones and antibiotics.

    The U.S. seems to be leading the way. This makes the nation fat and unhealthy, requiring more medical attention. On the other side, medical drugs/treatments are marketed at exorbitant prices, and once they are in circulation, our medical drug industry shows instances of suppressing and discouraging immerging cheaper/better remedies, and of suppressing discoveries of dangerous side effects. The common man is getting squeezed from every side. Our automobile industry ignored, or bought and shelved technical innovations, to avoid prerequisite expensive modifications to production processes, loosing against foreign completion in the end.

    A revolution almost always has wide spread economic hardship at its base. Too much wealth in the hands of a few robs democracy of its effectiveness. The present worldwide wave of expression of dissatisfaction for the existing political establishments is only the beginning. Man’s pursuit of happiness is ever existing formidable force. Each new generation brings forth clearer perspective of the prevailing reality. The majority of the world population feeling safer than before has shifted its focus to achieving comfort. The biggest obstacle to comfortable living, the common man sees now, is the unjust distribution of wealth. As a result the demand for more profound socialism is forming in the mind of the world masses. Often, at the beginning, revolting masses are acutely aware of their pain but not clear about the cause or the remedy. Unless the real underlying decease is addressed, treating the symptoms only with political adjustments will not mollify the masses. It seems like the next lesson on humanity’s curriculum is that, ‘unchecked commercial greed is detrimental to community’s happiness’.

    What we need is a way to disperse widely the power of money on economic decision-making, releasing the economic factors from the narrow channels of money flow that keep enriching the economically high and mighty. This needs to be effected without blocking individual’s ability to acquire wealth, which motivates economic production. It is best to achieve this economic power disperson with least interference from other entities, like continued manipulation by government.

    Such a scheme would spread usage of money to many hands, minimizing its potential to exploit the society, without blocking any individual from accumulating wealth.
     
  19. pol meister

    pol meister Well-Known Member

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    As I suspected, the quickest way to dash any hopes of repealing ObamaCare first, and replacing it later, is to have Senator McConnell in charge of the process. In McConnell's mind, it is apparently better to take a difficult path on an unpopular route, than to take an easier path on a more popular route.

    McConnell rejects Trump's advice to repeal ObamaCare now, replace later

    Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell is rejecting President Trump's suggestion on how the Senate could promptly pass its ObamaCare overhaul measure -- by immediately repealing the 2010 heath care law and replacing it later.

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...e-to-replace-obamacare-now-replace-later.html


     
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  20. Libby

    Libby Well-Known Member

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    Exactly.

    I'm tired of seeing the hardworking taxpaying middle class get screwed for the sake of "the poor", especially when most of "the poor" have nobody to blame for their circumstances but themselves, their laziness, and their irresponsible choices.

    I still don't understand how so many people have bought into the hype that the world will end if we get rid of Obamacare. Somehow we made it through just fine to 2009, but suddenly our lives depend on Obamacare insurance??
     
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  21. bois darc chunk

    bois darc chunk Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Insurance companies won't cover pre-existing conditions unless the risk pool is large enough to make it financially feasible. That's why the mandate was necessary- it forced the pool to be large enough to cover the costs of pre-existing conditions.

    Of course, if you take insurance companies out of the loop, we have a different story. That's what other countries do, and offer affordable health care to all their citizens.
     
  22. ARDY

    ARDY Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I could support this isrepublicans took ownership of the results
    And if they took responsibility to replace without blaming democrats
    And if the GOP replacement plan met the standards and goals set out by candidate trump

    I think these are all reasonable expectations
     
  23. bois darc chunk

    bois darc chunk Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It seems you've removed political consequences from this solution. The people don't want their health insurance to fail them, or to have to go without it. They don't want to go bankrupt because one family member has a bad accident or an expensive illness. They want Congress to fix what doesn't work well and lower premiums. If Congress, with Republican control in both houses and in the White House, does nothing other than let our health care fail, they will answer to the voters. The Republican party has had time to prepare a plan to do what was promised in the election, yet they had no plan. They still have no workable plan. Nothing is standing in their way of creating exactly what was promised in the election- repeal and replace with a plan that offers quality care at an affordable price, except the political will to do so. There will be no excuse at the ballot box.
     
  24. yiostheoy

    yiostheoy Well-Known Member

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    Every GOP senator and representative that votes for a repeal of ACA without a replacement will be out of a job after the 2018 elections.

    That would be like shooting yourself in the foot and hitting your brain instead.
     
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  25. Mrlucky

    Mrlucky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So what. Think you could make billions in real estate out of a few million?

    I have a general dislike for most developers. I have worked with many. Most find grey areas or deal under the table. That's just the way the game is played especially in large cities. Trump is one of the best, if that is possible.
     

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