Trump says American allies should spend more on defense. Here's why he's wrong.

Discussion in 'Diplomacy & Conflict Resolution' started by bobnelsonfr, Feb 16, 2017.

  1. Seth Bullock

    Seth Bullock Well-Known Member Donor

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    Not everyone in this country likes having the top role in European defense. I think Europe should have the top role, and the U.S. should have a back-up role.

    And you never answered my questions. I will tell you that, in the event of Russian aggression, I would be extremely reluctant to commit U.S. troops to defend countries who had made a conscious decision not to defend themselves.
     
  2. bobnelsonfr

    bobnelsonfr Member

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    That's "If you want to know what I think about a topic, then please ask. Don't make stuff up and put it in my voice."
     
  3. Jimmy79

    Jimmy79 Banned

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    SO, it is a yes.
     
  4. bobnelsonfr

    bobnelsonfr Member

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    I agree with you. Most Europeans, too, probably. But since America is happy to pick up the tab, why should they not accept the situation?

    I did answer your questions.

    Are you aware that almost all of America's NATO allies followed into Afghanistan after 9/11? They upheld the "come to each other's defense" rule.

    The question of who pays how much is not a simple one. Many Americans think America spends far too much on "defense"... because most of America's "defense" happens in other parts of the world... and sometimes involves invading countries. The US spends as much as the next ten countries combined... and eight of them are allies... as are the next six. Iran is 19th, spending two percent of what America spends. America spends twice as much as China and Russia combined.

    France, the UK and Germany, combined, spend twice as much as Russia. Are you surprised that they do not feel much need to spend more?
     
  5. bobnelsonfr

    bobnelsonfr Member

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    SO it is a "If you want to know what I think about a topic, then please ask. Don't make stuff up and put it in my voice."
     
  6. VotreAltesse

    VotreAltesse Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It's just an insurance your potential invaders wouldn't take the risk to be trasnformed into radioactive ash.
     
  7. bobnelsonfr

    bobnelsonfr Member

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    Its a form of Russian roulette. I'd rather not play!

    I'd rather have sufficiently powerful conventional forces that Putin would never want to try.
     
  8. VotreAltesse

    VotreAltesse Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Russia is 150 millions inhabitant. Finland is 5,5 millions, so they could try to re do 1940, but it would be a miracle to resist with "conventional forces".

    Furthermore, their is not only Putin, for a non american, their is 0 reasons to trust nutsies like Hillary or Trump. A lot of american says that they absolutely don't care of what happens outside USA.

    Who know if USA wouldn't turn one day totally amok ? Is it with conventionnal forces you would resist that ? The only solution is massive nuclear power. Poland trusted UK and France to protect them during WW2, did it helped them ? No.
     
  9. bobnelsonfr

    bobnelsonfr Member

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    Why do you presume that Finland would be alone? The EU is 450 million people. Germany, France, the UK and Italy each have larger GDPs than Russia.

     
    Last edited: May 27, 2017
  10. xAWACr

    xAWACr Member

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    We did, 72 years ago. And the land in question is being used today.
     
  11. Strasser

    Strasser Banned

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    2% is a drop in the bucket for Euros. U.S. defense spending extends their protection far beyond Europe's immediate borders, which some don't seem to notice, and despite being a great bargain for them they still snivel about paying it, and then Merkel ironically runs around whining that it's the U.S. that's become an 'unreliable ally'. Pretty stupid policy, really, it's the same mentality spoiled Burb Brat 'libertarians' have: "All this stuff was already here when I was born (yesterday), so I don't feel like I should have to pay for any of it now."

    Europe dragged the U.S. into both of their World Wars, they just can't respect American neutrality, they insist on violating it, and then they whine about the results. Bring about the longest period of peace in their history, allowing them to develop and prosper under our shield, and then run around pretending they're 'self made n stuff' and we're 'harshin their buzz' by asking them to throw a little something into the kitty.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2017
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  12. Strasser

    Strasser Banned

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    Yes, 'whatever' usually being starting wars with each other ... costing millions of lives and dragging most of the planet into them ...

    Be careful what you wish for ... you will get it in this case. I doubt it results in 'living happily ever after' for Europe.

    And Easter Bunnies are real.

    Oh yeah, it's really all 'deep n stuff',; ordinary mortals just can't grasp it all ...
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2017
  13. Strasser

    Strasser Banned

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    They would just go out of their way to drag us into their problems, regardless.
     
  14. osbornterry

    osbornterry Well-Known Member

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    The Europeans have been shortchanging NATO for decades going back to its start. Trump is not the first American to be criticized for asking them to do more to defend themselves.

    Charles Lindbergh lived in England in the 1930's and toured the air forces of many countries. He could see Germany was re-arming faster than England and France. He warned politicians in both countries and was told in so many words that they were not worried because the Americans would always come to their rescue. He was very angry that they assumed Americans would die for their stupidity. That was his reason to lobby for US neutrality during WWII.

    That was 80 years ago and nothing has changed. Why should the Europeans get away with the same thing today?

    BTW: Lindbergh was labeled pro-Nazi for lobbying that America stay out of the war.
     

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