Trump tells European countries to take back IS fighters

Uh huh.

 

Stoltenberg has not asked for such powers. He has not offered the required leadership. He does not have the mental agility to lead. The NATO member states cannot follow Stoltenberg when he does not, will not, and cannot lead.

Of course the member states would have to agree to follow such a lead but if the lead is not given then they have no-one to follow.

I would not try to do this "against the will of the USA" or against the will of other member NATO states, except I would go against the will of Erdogan in attempting to wield the Turkish veto around the NATO tables.

I seek support for this course of action from the USA and from other NATO member states.

Yes I think the USA, following the lead of those like Senator John McCain, using the CIA, has armed many such unreliable Islamists who were most concerned to fight against Bashar al-Assad but this was not a fight that the USA wanted to join using its own military unless provoked by al-Assad's use of chemical weapons against civilians.

The Kurds, the YPG, the SDF have proved to have been reliable allies for the USA and NATO, focusing on the fight against ISIS.

We cannot accept Erdogan's undemocratic definition of who is a "terrorist" because he thinks that any Kurd who wants self-government is a "terrorist". Erdogan is an authoritarian who behaves as an elected dictator, a fascist, rigging the Turkish courts by appointing his stooges as judges to lock up not only Kurds but also his Turkish critics - political activists, journalists and academics.

 

Sure ... but look at the rules of and for the NATO general secretary and which permissions he has and shall (only) have due to will of all NATO member states! The rule of the NATO General Secratary is at least not much more as the rule of the Queen in the UK

And right this is the problem, because non of the member states would support you currently here... and so you stand alone with power to do anything ...

Unfortunately, the US has often supported everyone and everything in history without asking any questions about who it is that they support. Unfortunately, only one thing was and is important: They are enemies of our enemy and that is enough.
This was not only the case in Syria, it was also the case in Libya and it is not always the US itself, others where you know USA and then all eyes shut for the same reason! In Libya, for example, the US watched as Bahrain openly supplied equipment, ammunition and weapons to Islamist groups fighting against Gaddafi with its own C-130 Bahrain Air Force transport machines. Including a well-known offshoot of Al Qaeda.

In addition, in Syria, the US made a catastrophic mistake that they unfortunately often make.
They were simply faced with the choice, either massive and then properly military against Assad to proceed ... so almost like 2003 in Iraq ... or to stay completely out and let it regulate the other world power, which actually concerns because Syria is the sphere of influence of Russia. Done was nothing of both, but a half ass action which fueled up the inner Syrian mess really ... together with Turkish actions here!

I see it the same like you ... but Turkey not. And this is the reason why the NATO members are doing nothing here against Erdogan.... because they weigh everything and in the end they see ... like the US ... Turkey as a more important ally in the region.

Totally agreed ... but you see why I say that the terminus "Terrorist" is these days saying nothing anymore, because it is abused to disgrace an opponent with it?

 

By the way ...

When I look in this thread here with this issue reported there, I get some mixed feelings about Trump's demand!

http://www.politicalforum.com/index...not-be-admitted-to-the-us-pompeo-says.551276/

Why shall we take ours back, when you don't with yours please?

No idea if she has US citizenship or not ... but if I would say the USA must (!!!) take her back the same way as we must take back ours!
If she has not, it is the same way debatable as with those "foreigners" who were born in our country same way, not having our citizenship, but went from us to Syria. Why shall we take them back, if you don't?

 

The Queen is unhelpful. Stoltenberg is unhelpful. NATO needs a new helpful Secretary General.

The NATO member states can -

• support me, support NATO's Kurdish, YPG and SDF allies and support the Turkey which supports NATO or
• they can play the 3 monkeys with Stoltenberg and support Erdogan who is not supporting NATO.

Turkey does not think with one brain. Many Turks see the Kurds as brothers, friends and allies and want peace with Kurds.

Most Turks are wiser than Erdogan to want war with Kurds but Turks can only avoid war if they can disregard the bad leadership of Erdogan, if Turks get the right leadership from NATO, only if NATO clearly tells Turkey that Erdogan is wrong and that he cannot speak for Turkey to NATO.

Turkey is a NATO member state and an important ally but Erdogan is not an important man. NATO doesn't need Erdogan. Turkey doesn't need Erdogan. We can all do much better without Erdogan.

There is no "reason" to do nothing against Erdogan. Respecting Erdogan as "Mr Turkey" is playing the 3 monkeys.

NATO requires new leadership and a new Secretary General who has the mental agility to recognise only the Turkey which is without Erdogan as NATO's ally and to deal only with that Turkey, never with Erdogan.

 

Yes ... BUT then the Secretary General needs also the necessary power and permissions and these must be given by all NATO members to the Secretary General. Until this does not happen, any NATO Secretary General can't do much!

So the guilty one you have chosen isn't really guilty ... but you can blame the NATO members, particularly these who are the powerful one and here with the USA on rank #01!

I don't disagree with you about this ... no miss-understanding ... but with view on given realities that no one of these NATO major members has the political will for these steps and also that Stoltenberg has not the necessary power and permission and rights to do anything by his own.

Another point is of course if Stoltenberg has this will at all ... you say no and I have also doubts that he has ... but again: Even if he has the will to do these things you want to do, he has no rights and permissions to do so!

The Turkish - Kurdish conflict is not existing since Erdogan ... it is nealry 100 years old. In the past was even the term "Kurdish" in Tukey forbidden and they officially denied that there is something like Kurds existing. They told that what we call Kurds are in reality "Mountain Turks" and not only few have still these view in Turkey!

Also, since ever is any Kurdish trial of a somehow independence or even partially autonomy for Turkey like a red cloth for the bull! This is not only given for the Kurdish areas inside Turkey, but also in the neighboring countries of Syria, Iraq, Iran and even a little bit in Armenia with Kurdish areas.
And about the bad leadership of Erdogan ... well ... you know that I call Erdogan a dicator bastard always, but unfortunately he has a wide backing in the country and population. If a majority of not I will not rate or tell ... but it is at or around half of Turks like him.

Again ... as far as I agree with you about steps against Erdogan, the guilty one is NOT the Secretary General Stoltenberg, because he who you have targeted here has not the power, permissions and rights to do what you and I want to be done.
It is only about the member states and here particularly the major members with USA in lead about!