Trump's fans know they have lost

States select the president through the electoral college. That’s a fact. You are welcome to moan and try and change it but that’s just the way it is today.

Trump became president because he worked for it in states that mattered while Hillary took a nap. Who sounds stupid and incompetent when you chew on those facts? He won under the procedures set up in the Constitution. Make all the excuses you want, that’s what it boils down to. At some point when NY State and the House strike out on destroying Trump on make believe charges you are going to have to accept that.

There is nothing freakish about Trump winning in 2016. I’ve said for years anyone running on a similar platform to Trump’s could be president. It only seems odd to you because you haven’t a clue about the realities of life in a vast portion of the United States.

 

immigration is different though. I don't agree with sanctuary cities, but those cities and states aren't violating any laws. Federal law enforcement is responsible for immigration, not city and states.

 

it is not.

I'm not arguing that states elect the president, via electoral votes. I'm arguing that this system, in 2019, is no longer needed, and has proven detrimental twice now this century.

I agree

 

getting your ass kicked.

uh, no. Clinton received almost 3 million more votes than trump did.

did he receive the most votes? yep. So, he won and should have won.

 

How many more votes does the loser have to get to say that the winner was "roundly rejected"?

You can't honestly say someone with well over 50 million supporters has been "roundly rejected"?

 

Then the same argument works against you. Nebraska, both Dakotas, Kansas etc should not all be able to dictate to larger more popular states. Right now, those smaller fly over states have more of a say in the presidency than populated states. And that is a problem. The people are supposed to govern themselves, via selecting their elected officials. Having someone serve as president, who the people soundly rejected is entirely unamerican

 

it's subjective. but 3 million sounds good to me.

of course I can, as the vote showed, and polls currently show.

 

Bush was only down 500,000 (if you believe the totals).

 

I agree except for the willful release of criminal aliens without notifying the Feds, etc.

 

And he shouldn't have won because of it. This is the problem with the system currently.

 

yea that's a problem.

 

I can’t remember all the details but the Fed not allowing states to mirror fed law on immigration back a few years was odd too.

 

I think that involved Arizona and Obama. I can't remember the details either but I know Arizona lost.

 

You mean a problem with the constitution. I guess the constitution is not constitutional.

 

Very good. After 470 posts, I finally pried it out of one Trump fan to defend Trump and inform us all why he supports Trump. A few comments about Trump's "accomplishments" are in order.

The appointment of conservative judges is not an accomplishment. It is a duty. Conservative Presidents are expected to appoint conservative judges.

Increased military spending we can't pay for is not a good idea. Trump severely cut revenue but increased military spending. We already spend more on the military than the next 10 nations ... combined.

Trump's own party opposes building his wall.

The JCPOA permanently barred Iran from making a nuke. Trump withdrew the U.S. from the JCPOA contrary to the wishes of every ally we have. Trump replaced it with no controls and only harsh language (threats). Iran is now free to copy the U.S., remove itself from the JCPOA, and resume its research on nuclear development. Great idea, that one.

The only way to get Russia to obey the INF treaty is to withdraw from it. That sounds like a true Trump fan.

Trump's 25% tariff on $200B Chinese goods will damage our economy greatly by severely weakening consumer spending. That is why he has backed down from it three times hoping for a deal with China. That is not at all certain, and Wall Street is spooked.

Trump has no plans for health care. Nothing to replace the ACA. Remove a vital program -- health care for millions of Americans -- and not have anything to replace it, is that any way to run a government? That sounds like a true Trump fan.

Rolling back regs may have helped our economy in the short run, but hurt it and our environment in the long run. Trump did this to get votes. He is solely concerned about 2020, not 2030. That sounds like a true, shortsighted Trump fan.

You support Trump's encouragement of a 20th Century business -- coal and oil -- instead of a 21st Century business -- renewable energy sources for our future. That sounds like a true Trump fan.

The way to fight climate change is to be the only nation in the world not joining with other nations to fight the damaging effects of climate change we are already experiencing, the Paris Accord. Well, that is because climate change is a Chinese hoax, according to Trump. You sound like a true Trump fan.

Other than those factors, you did a great job. Thank you.

 

I’ll always disagree with your definitions of strawmen but I understand the point you were making anyway. To address it, changing the slavery and suffrage issues protected minority/oppressed classes. Doing away with the EC would essentially do the opposite.

The thing is it will always be needed. As long as there are any vestiges of Federalism left in this country, anyway.

Can you categorically prove Bush and Trump are worse Presidents than their opponents would have been? I don’t think so. And apparently neither did majorities of a lot of states.

Personally, a Hillary presidency had strong potential to destroy my livelihood through clean air regs in the EPA pipeline. If the regs had been implemented and enforced many if not all in my line would have been crippled or bankrupted through fines and litigation. That in turn would have had huge negative impacts on food and fuel supplies. When you claim a Trump presidency is detrimental it seems like a very subjective claim.

And that is just one instance. Trump will positively impact my state through his trade negotiations and immigration policy.

Has Trump done anything that has impacted you negatively to the extent of destroying your livelihood? Has he tried to force you to buy something you don’t have any use for? I’m sure willing to listen and discuss if so. But for me and others Trump is much preferable to the alternative. I’ve said so here before but I don’t think to you personally I didn’t even vote for the guy. Yet I’m thankful for much of what he is doing. He saved the people of my state a lot of grief.

Oh, I don’t disagree with a lot of your criticism of Bush but I do not think the country would be better off if Gore had won. I’m sure that’s where we probably part ways.

 

So after repeatedly claiming that "Trump fans can't defend him or explain why they support him" I give you ten reasons why I support him.

And all you do is bitch about my reasons. Intellectual dishonesty on your part. Also debate wise you are moving the goal posts.

 

21st century business? For one, wind power is very much 19th century technology. I would assume based on your books that you have considerable knowledge of U.S. history? Windmills have been described as one of the key technologies that opened up the American west.

 

Boy, I sure did.

 

I respect that opinion. There is a certain element of truth to it.

That said, what has brought this on? The alleged crimes committed by Trump. There is documentary evidence that Trump's lawyers, implicating Trump himself, told Cohen to lie to Congress about negotiations for the Moscow Trump Tower ended. Que bono, who benefits? Who benefited from the lie? Certainly not Cohen. Trump benefited from the lie. The truth would have been extremely damaging to his Presidential campaign.

Six checks, each for $35,000, were sent to Cohen while Trump was President reimbursing Cohen for the payoff to the porn star, Stormy Daniels. Copies of the checks were provided by the N.Y. Times. Trump claims he knew nothing about the hush money to Daniels. This is evidence of a conspiracy and campaign fraud.

Trump, over the wishes of his security officials, chief of staff, and White House counsel, gave Kushner and Ivanka security clearances. Kushner is Trump's senior foreign affairs advisor who has had business dealings with the Russian government and several other foreign nations. Conflict of interest, anyone? That is grossly obvious. It is a key to Trump's character that he trusts no one outside his family.

That's only what Americans have learned during this week. That is on top of a mountain of evidence that Trump is a crook and an agent for the Russian government.

So, maybe Nadler got carried away, but, perhaps for good reason.

That is still no excuse for the inflammatory and false statement put out by the White House. But it does provide an accurate picture of the current White House.

 

Was there anything on the checks that indicated they were a payoff? Did it occur to you that Trump was Cohen's only client and that six $35,000 amounts to only $210,000? That is pretty low fees for a lawyer for two years work.

Nadler should get carried away in a padded van.

 

You did? What was this specific policy?

 

According to legal and campaign finance experts, the checks themselves don’t prove a crime.

https://www.vox.com/2019/3/6/18253467/trump-michael-cohen-checks-legal-stormy-daniels

The checks do not claim to repay due to the adult film woman Daniels

 

Why don't the checks to his lawyer make that claim?

 

"Who benefits from a lie?" or "Who benefits from a crime?" is not actual evidence of a lie or a crime.