Two different stories about consent and "rape", a paradox

I'm trying to explain to you how they did not. You don't seem to want to listen.

 

If she says no and he does it anyway, it is just as wrong as if a stranger did it. There is no difference there.

 

Rape is wrong. Period. Your desire for me to "listen" to your arguments otherwise isn't going to matter.

 

Okay, let me try to explain it to you this way. The woman goes on a first date with a guy. They part ways for the night. Later the man sneaks into the woman's home, gets naked and presses himself up against the woman sleeping in her bed. That is a situation where the man could very likely be charged with sexual assault.
Now, let's compare this to another situation. The woman's long-term boyfriend surprises her and hops in the bed naked with her and presses up against her. He has already had sex with her many times before. In fact, they have just had sex last week. If the police have all the accurate information, there is no way he is going to be charged with anything.

I can take this even further. Even if the woman said "no, no", that's still not the same type of "no" as if it had been some random guy. The boyfriend would likely presume she was saying no because she was tired, or no because he had cold hands. That it wasn't a serious no. Again, there is no way he would be charged with sexual assault. (We are talking about him just pressing up naked against her, not any sexual penetration, in this hypothetical)

Maybe that will help you understand. Context is important. Past sexual history between those two people is important.

 

The issue is that consent violations involving sex may not always rise to the level of being a "rape".

If a husband begins tickling his wife while they are having sex, and she says stop it but he does not, is that rape? Of course not.

How about if she does an erotic dance in front her husband, then begins sucking him off, but then she stops sucking when she hears the baby crying in the other room, then he goes into her, but she tells him not to after he has already gone in, and instead he continues for a few minutes, because he is afraid his wife is going to leave him with blue balls. Is that rape? Would anyone try to argue that is exactly the same as regular rape? Of course not.

Of course these are just two ridiculously extreme examples to try to prove a point.
(And, to be fair, there is the danger of argument of extremes)

 

I don't believe you seriously believe this. Either that or you are not thinking.

Or maybe when you are using the phrase "just as wrong", you don't actually literally mean it, in the same way that others could interpret that phrase.

Sounds like that may actually be a bit of hyperbole.

 

I'm not sure why anyone would hate women enough not to believe this.

 

This issue is about how much she has been harmed and violated. Not just a simple black & white issue about whether she happened to say yes or no before sex.

She could say no in two different situations, but be a lot more violated in one of them than the other.

 

YES. For the love of ****ing God, please tell me you aren't so misogynistic that you actually believe this ****.

 

If she says no, and you do it anyway, it's rape, regardless of what you've done together in the past.

 

Well, if you believe that is RAPE, just like ordinary rape, then I do not know how to help you.

 

If you believe it isn't rape, then you need serious ****ing help.

 

You're just being ridiculous.

You obviously have a different definition of rape from how many other people conceive it to be.

 

For thinking rape is wrong? Dude, seriously. Please tell me you understand that the scenario you described is rape, it is illegal, and it is unethical. Please tell me you are not so far gone that you can't grasp that.

 

No, for thinking that constitutes "Rape!"

regardless, many prosecutors would refuse to even take up that case.

I don't think you'd be able to find many juries in conservative states who would convict. Not unless a WHOLE lot of emotion was used to try to sway them.

 

It literally is rape.

Their evil is not my responsibility.

Marital rape cases have been prosecuted. But even if they hadn't, their evil would not be my responsibility. Forcing yourself on a woman against her will because you are "scared of blue balls" is rape. Period. Please stop defending rape.

 

Using your contorted definition of rape, yes.

This is really a modern radical Feminist understanding. They have redefined the word "rape".


If you want to argue it is bad, disrespectful to the wife, a sexual violation, all that is okay.

 

Sex against a someone's will is rape. That isn't a "contorted definition." It's a ****ing tautology.

It is bad, it is disrespectful to the wife, it is a sexual violation, and it is rape.

 

The first case might be fraud, but I wouldn't call it rape. Everyone has the right to withdraw consent, at any time. But, after the fact? It's a civil issue, not criminal.

The second case would be rape, and it would be extremely difficult to prove. Unless there were extenuating circumstances presented or some witnesses to his proclaiming that he raped her, I don't see how I could come to a conclusion, beyond reasonable doubt, that she's telling the truth.

 

I think you will find that in law, fraud invalidates any agreement.

 

Should we use a different burden of evidence when the alleged sex violation is between two married people?

For example, maybe be willing to put a man in prison when a random woman accuses him of rape, but require more evidence than just the woman's accusation when the woman is his wife.

 

Yes, but it's still quite a logical jump to say that that makes it constitute rape.

 

You just constantly search for ways to get a man off for having raped someone.

I'm not impressed.

 

Sorry. There was no legitimate consent.

Not only that, but there was a plot to cause the opportunity for sex even though it was known that honest consent was NOT going to happen.

End of your story.

 

Can someone just make a random accusation of rape and have it be taken credibly?

I don't know the whole story. Did she go straight to the police with her claim? Did they use a rape kit?