US tariffs: Steel and aluminium levies slapped on key allies

Discussion in 'Economics & Trade' started by Reiver, May 31, 2018.

  1. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    The US said a 25% tax on steel and 10% tax on aluminium from the EU, Mexico and Canada will start at midnight. The move immediately triggered vows of retaliation from Mexico, Canada and the EU, which called the tariffs "protectionism, pure and simple".
    Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-44320221

    We know that trade is a good thing, with the overall cake growing for all involved. That goes back to Adam Smith and David Ricardo. We also know that trade between developed countries provides no rationale for trade protectionism (and, to be fair, trade protectionism is skewed against developing nations). Is this final evidence that America is adopting economic irrational policies and, purely through internal politics where Trump wants to impress the right wing voter, they are willingly harming the American economy and consumer?
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2018
  2. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Most people in the US could care less about economics, debt, trade, etc. because ALL they can think about is themselves.. What's In It For Me? is the root of how we vote and function. Trump is nothing but power hungry, focused solely on feeding his ego, and this is partly accomplished by outright lies to his naive flock, who pour unwarranted adulation on him, completing this dangerous cycle. One example is most love and support the idea of tax cuts but refuse to even discuss deficits and debt. Some business managers care only about maximizing profits for 'today' with little concern about the long term health of the company and the effects on everyone involved...call this tactical but void of strategy! IMO this will lead to failure...
     
  3. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    True, but its interesting how far he's gone from 'you can trust us with the economy' right wing rhetoric.
     
  4. yiostheoy

    yiostheoy Well-Known Member

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    Tariffs are a great source of revenue for the gov't.

    They are ultimately born by the consumers.

    Their indirect impact is to give domestic producers a level playing field with foreign suppliers.

    Win, win, win.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2018
  5. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    Only in developing countries, given its simplicity and often focus on richer consumer.

    If you think its just a consumer tax then you're sadly mistaken. Tariffs destroy economic activity, by definition. We've known that since the days of Ricardo.

    This is clueless I'm afraid. Any unlevel playing field is against the 'poor South'. These tariffs have no economic rationale.They distort trade and, through trade wars, will - without any doubt- ensure domestic producers are made worst off.
     
  6. yiostheoy

    yiostheoy Well-Known Member

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    You fail to see how China has defeated world free trade with their cheap inferior goods.

    This kind of blindness comes only from far right wing ideology.
     
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  7. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    The tariffs aren't focused on China. Also if China is guilty of breaking WTO rules, the correct procedure is to go through the dispute settlement procedures (which do allow retaliatory actions).

    The far right aren't typically free trade orientated. They buy into the mercantilism cobblers. Also free trade is quite compatible with socialism. Trumps stupidity has no economic rationale, it's simply pandering to popularism
     
  8. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Just tells you how stupid and self-serving we have become...
     
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  9. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    You're living in la-la-land if you believe the millions of products currently imported into the US will ever be manufactured in the US...dream-dream-dream
     
  10. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Why do you say that? They used to be manufactured in the US, and now the Rust Belt is languishing.
     
  11. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    Because the infant industry argument does not apply. This isn't about temporary protectionism to derive dynamic comparative advantage.

    There are a lot of people who genuinely are concerned about the US economy and question whether positive deindistrialisation (i.e. reflecting the impact of twinning productivity gains and income growth) occurred. However, you don't solve these issues through the stupidity of protectionism. You target the real structural problems created through neoliberalism.
     
  12. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Why...because they are horrible business models! And the products are inexpensive requiring very high production. The cost of setting up manufacturing in the US is time consuming and expensive, then add in the tooling and equipment, manpower and training, etc. and even with tariffs global competition still exists. Also, in many cases, there are environmental concerns. And remember to factor in significant increases in the prices of US-made products and how this impacts the consumer. I challenge you or anyone to design a business model that is sustainable and profitable producing inexpensive import items...I cannot imagine the American consumer accepting far less selection and higher prices...
     
  13. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Ignoring your neoliberalism label, a review of the problems is necessary, and in many cases there won't be satisfactory solutions for the US. Americans ignore the very reason why we have so many imports today...more selection, lower prices, better quality, etc. No one set out to destroy American manufacturing...
     
  14. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    You can't really. The US has fully embraced neoliberalism and, not surprisingly, the workers have suffered the most because of it.

    Deindustrialisation is, however, the indirect outcome of the right-wing policies imposed. Take something as simple as labour market flexibility (generated through relatively low minimum wages, a lack of labour rights and anti-union laws). The result is a focus on short-term labour relations based on immediate rent-seeking.
     
  15. james M

    james M Banned

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    workers have suffered because liberal unions, regulations, and taxes shipped their jobs to China, because of non capitalist liberal trade deals, because liberals invited in 30 million illegals to take the remaining jobs, and because liberals attacked their families, schools, and religion rendering many unfit for work.
     
  16. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    Please refer to evidence in support. Please also refer to why, European firms with more regulation, still perform positively?
     
  17. james M

    james M Banned

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    you want evidence that US taxes were highest in world and that harmed our competitive position?
    Europe has Eurosclerous functioning with about 65% of USA GDP. Thats postive performance?
     
  18. 61falcon

    61falcon Well-Known Member

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    Despite all the smoke being blown about the TRADE deficit with China, for the first 4 months of 2018 set a new all time high record of $119,050,900,000
     
  19. james M

    james M Banned

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    well if they spend all the money in America there will be no deficit. I'm sure they wont burn it
     
  20. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    Let's be honest. You've been cretinous. Countries with greater government interventionism and significant trade union power still don't have the same concerns over trade. Are you perhaps talking bobbins?
     

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