We’re Facing Civil War, Because We Don’t Agree on What America Is About

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by XXJefferson#51, Jan 24, 2020.

  1. XXJefferson#51

    XXJefferson#51 Well-Known Member

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    “.....The original link between ethical monotheism and popular sovereignty is breaking. Belief in both is disappearing. Several facts show that.

    First, our secular, progressive elites have rejected ethical monotheism. They are moral relativists. Why would they care about inalienable rights? They disbelieve in inalienable rights because that idea implies certain moral absolutes. Most see the very idea of “natural” moral law as hopelessly outdated, as is any idea of “Nature’s God.”

    Second, they dislike popular sovereignty too. No “deplorables”! They depend upon the courts to give them what they cannot win at the ballot box. They use the power of the federal government to over-ride local choices and force people to conform to the progressive vision.

    Clearly, neither development is compatible with the vision of the Founders. The vision of inalienable rights and popular sovereignty allowed our nation to remain united and peaceful across even deep disagreements. Sadly, given the sorry state of civics education, the average American no longer grasps this. And the left hates it....”



    https://stream.org/how-to-avoid-civil-war/



    The divide in America between the secular progressives and the deplorables is a huge and growing divide. There is less communication between the sides and it’s more talking past or around the other side. In my opinion the article is right in that the progressive left no longer holds to basics of our original national values and beliefs. The left opposes individualism and even democracy preferring to use the courts to take what they want rather than take the effort to build a consensus.
     
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  2. XXJefferson#51

    XXJefferson#51 Well-Known Member

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    The left totally rejects the founding fathers. They deny that there is a creator. They deny that we were created equal. They deny our inalienable rights exist, they deny that the God who gave us our rights exists.
     
  3. Market Junkie

    Market Junkie Banned

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    Tice isn't convinced your little god exists, jeff...



    Do you think you know more than guys like Tice, Einstein, Hawking, Sagan, et al?
     
  4. XXJefferson#51

    XXJefferson#51 Well-Known Member

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    I won’t play that game with you. There are plenty of brilliant people who believe in God as well. The founding fathers for the most part believed and made our founding principles clear and that they were based on a creator that created us equal and gave us our inalienable rights. They believed God played a role in our founding and war for independence as in divine providence and believed the republic they handed down to us could only succeed if we were a moral and just people.
     
  5. Texas Republican

    Texas Republican Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    His opinion on God is irrelevant. What matters is what is in our founding documents and the intentions of those who wrote them. Until we ratify a new Constitution, we have to abide by the existing one.
     
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  6. 3link

    3link Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You live in California, right? Just hoping you don't live near me cause you seem like an unstable person. And I'll bet you own a gun.
     
  7. XXJefferson#51

    XXJefferson#51 Well-Known Member

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    My screen name and avatar should give you a decent clue as to what part of Californication I live in. While I strongly believe in the 2nd amendment I do not currently own a gun. How would my belief in God and the founding principles of our country make me seem unstable?
     
  8. jay runner

    jay runner Banned

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    It's been 155 years since massive blood was spilled on this land in battle. That's a long time; we're overdue.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2020
  9. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Banned

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    The Founding Fathers did not think all people were created equal ... hell, they cut off the "inalienable" rights to over half the population (women, minorities, non-property owners) so if a right is "inalienable" from God, how was it that the rights of over half the population was cut off - then restored by the laws of men? Your argument is simply not tenable given the history of rights in this country.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2020
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  10. VotreAltesse

    VotreAltesse Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think there is a global crash of societies through the world, at least western societies, I think it's not that much different in S.Korea or Japan.

    I'm afraid it's happening the same thing that for Calhound mouses
    () I don't know if that video is that great, I discovered that in my native language.

    I suppose there is a global disintegration of societies throughout the developped world.
     
  11. Moonglow

    Moonglow Well-Known Member

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    If God gave us the rights we enjoy then why is God's signature not on the parchment?
    Equality? When will the religious stop discriminating against the gay community?
    There was a creator yet it is not the one you follow..
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2020
  12. XXJefferson#51

    XXJefferson#51 Well-Known Member

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    A civil war is something to be avoided. The solution is a return to federalism and a less powerful federal government. Let most issues be settled by the states within them and let them again be the laboratories of democracy. People vote with their feet or moving vans as to where to live on a variety reasons including taxes and economic. We need to end federal cram downs of one size fits all solutions nationwide from both sides and let the people of New York or Texas live as they see fit. If no one in one place desires to control how people live in another place the odds of civil war decease dramatically.
     
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  13. jay runner

    jay runner Banned

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    Yeah, but as it is we're overdue.
     
  14. VotreAltesse

    VotreAltesse Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There is a global crisis of democracy. Considering the global level of debt, I'm afraid we're near an extreme financial disaster.

    I've heard an interesting conference about the collapses of empires, it was based on the book of joseph tainter "the collapse of complex societies". That's quite an interesting book.

    I can't say when or how it would happen, but clearly there is a high possibility of the bankrupcy of the wellfare state in the next decades.

    I doubt that there is enough people at the left able to fight. What I think is the most likely is that when all that debt problem would explose, there would be chaos and police could be out of picture in some places. I don't know if the army would take things "in hand".
     
  15. bricklayer

    bricklayer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I honestly can't tell is you are unable, or just unwilling, to consider the messages rather then the messengers.
    Either way, you are every bit as consistent as I am in my considerations of the messages rather than the messengers.
    I believe that this difference between us extends from my tendency to think of myself and others, first and foremost as individuals rather than members of groups and your tendency to think of yourself and others as members of groups rather than individuals.
     

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